4 ms·

For anyone who thinks legibility in typographic design is a minor issue, please read about highway sign design, Saab's "Night Panel", Germany's license plate fo

For anyone who thinks legibility in typographic design is a minor issue, please read about highway sign design, Saab's "Night Panel", Germany's license plate font (which is a fruit of another legibility problem), Atkinson HyperLegible fonts, and aircraft dial design studies done in the past. This is important work and is being outsourced (so no heavy load on Volvo employees besides reviewing the work), and I believe this is as important as reducing any distractions during driving. Ford used to have (and may still have) a cockpit/dashboard simulator where they install prototype dashboards and test their mental load by creating "unexpected hazards" in the simulation while tweaking something on the dash. I can operate my car's controls without even looking at them and just by feeling them, while looking at the road. The dials are extremely readable, so I'm not aware that I'm checking them even. We should be targeting this over design, any day. This is important work.

jjtheblunt 10mo ago
what car can you operate so? i ask because i had a SAAB 900 model from the early 80s, used, and it was like that. never needed to look away from the road...and it's been gone for 35 years now but oh how i miss its design.
- bayindirh 10mo ago
  It's not something very young. An 2001 Ford Focus MK-I. However, I recently drove a Ford Puma Hybrid, and that had the same DNA. Great dashboard despite being LCD, good controls, on-wheel cruise and limiter, etc. I can do most of the things without looking away from the road. While I use Apple CarPlay most of the time, it's navigation was good, even. With good directions and readable, clear maps. For all the cars I have rented in the last 2-3 years, Ford still has that DNA the best.
subscribed 10mo ago
And what would you say is more conductive to safety -- having to use the giant tablet and READ it to use the temperature/volume controls, or having a physical, tactile buttons and knobs that can be found and operated without ever taking the eyes off the road? If you say that making a font easier to read increases the safety more I think NCAP would like a word.
- Zetaphor 10mo ago
  Why do these have to be mutually exclusive?
- bayindirh 10mo ago
  > If you say that making a font easier to read increases the safety more I think NCAP would like a word. Yes, I say that. However, what I don't say is that we shall increase touch controls. I support more physical controls, but physical controls doesn't invalidate displays or the need for text. See, reducing cognitive load is the aim. If I can read a road sign faster, or understand what my instrument cluster is saying in shorter time, both are equally significant wins. LCD instrument clusters are not going anywhere, and they come in variety of sizes and qualities. A boring, quickly readable cluster is always better than an exciting, but an unreadable one, so design and font choice is a factor. Below, I noted the instrument cluster of Ford Puma Hybrid. Utterly boring, extremely easy to understand and packed with more information than most cars I have driven. It's a great experience, and font selection is at least 30% of that. So yes, a good font is a security multiplier, and if it can look good while staying very legible, this is a great win.
  - subscribed 10mo ago
    I asked if in your opinion clarity of the font on the CONSOLE, inside the car, is more conductive to the safety than being able to operate critical / common functions without looking (ie: without having to read the text). DON'T ADD the road signs to the context, Volvo is not updating road signs. This is moving the goalpost/strawman. First is a current situation in this car to change the temperature: 1. Having to look at the screen, read, find, reach to touch, read, find, touch versus the situation with physical controls: 2. Reach without looking, press/turn And you really say "having to look, read, find, reach to touch, read, find, touch" is better than just reaching without looking? Because this is what you say: making a font on the infotainment easier to read improves the safety more than adding physical controls. No more questions.
    - bayindirh 10mo ago
      I reread the thread from the start, so I want to set some things straight: 1. I have cited "highway sign design" & "Germany's license plate font" as factors external to cars. I'm not moving anything except my fingers while typing this comment. Moreover, I'm not trying to win anything and we're just discussing here. Moving the goalposts would be something silly to do, if I ever attempted it. 2. No, you asked whether the clarity of the fonts contribute to the safety of the whole car, and I said "yes!", and will say again. Your question lacks a comparison relative to anything, so it stands on its own. Again, for the third time, legibility of anything inside (and around) the car is a contributor to security of it. 3. Again, citing myself, I told that we shall reduce touch controls and increase physical ones. I mean that comment is 2 days old. I can't edit it in, can I? However, by citing displays I again openly mentioned "digital instrument clusters", and displays attached to controls like climate controls' displays sitting in proximity of rotary dials most of the time. Legibility of these things are equally important as blind controls, because if your car wants your attention, you need to understand what's happening as quickly as possible. I believe there's a clear misunderstanding going on, and I honestly don't know what to do and say, because you're stuffing words in my mouth. I'll probably go make tea. Happy (belated) merry Christmas and happy new year. Please drive safe, and be attentive to road.

jjtheblunt 10mo ago

what car can you operate so? i ask because i had a SAAB 900 model from the early 80s, used, and it was like that. never needed to look away from the road...and it's been gone for 35 years now but oh how i miss its design.

bayindirh 10mo ago
It's not something very young. An 2001 Ford Focus MK-I. However, I recently drove a Ford Puma Hybrid, and that had the same DNA. Great dashboard despite being LCD, good controls, on-wheel cruise and limiter, etc. I can do most of the things without looking away from the road. While I use Apple CarPlay most of the time, it's navigation was good, even. With good directions and readable, clear maps. For all the cars I have rented in the last 2-3 years, Ford still has that DNA the best.

subscribed 10mo ago

And what would you say is more conductive to safety -- having to use the giant tablet and READ it to use the temperature/volume controls, or having a physical, tactile buttons and knobs that can be found and operated without ever taking the eyes off the road? If you say that making a font easier to read increases the safety more I think NCAP would like a word.

Zetaphor 10mo ago
Why do these have to be mutually exclusive?
bayindirh 10mo ago
> If you say that making a font easier to read increases the safety more I think NCAP would like a word. Yes, I say that. However, what I don't say is that we shall increase touch controls. I support more physical controls, but physical controls doesn't invalidate displays or the need for text. See, reducing cognitive load is the aim. If I can read a road sign faster, or understand what my instrument cluster is saying in shorter time, both are equally significant wins. LCD instrument clusters are not going anywhere, and they come in variety of sizes and qualities. A boring, quickly readable cluster is always better than an exciting, but an unreadable one, so design and font choice is a factor. Below, I noted the instrument cluster of Ford Puma Hybrid. Utterly boring, extremely easy to understand and packed with more information than most cars I have driven. It's a great experience, and font selection is at least 30% of that. So yes, a good font is a security multiplier, and if it can look good while staying very legible, this is a great win.
- subscribed 10mo ago
  I asked if in your opinion clarity of the font on the CONSOLE, inside the car, is more conductive to the safety than being able to operate critical / common functions without looking (ie: without having to read the text). DON'T ADD the road signs to the context, Volvo is not updating road signs. This is moving the goalpost/strawman. First is a current situation in this car to change the temperature: 1. Having to look at the screen, read, find, reach to touch, read, find, touch versus the situation with physical controls: 2. Reach without looking, press/turn And you really say "having to look, read, find, reach to touch, read, find, touch" is better than just reaching without looking? Because this is what you say: making a font on the infotainment easier to read improves the safety more than adding physical controls. No more questions.
  - bayindirh 10mo ago
    I reread the thread from the start, so I want to set some things straight: 1. I have cited "highway sign design" & "Germany's license plate font" as factors external to cars. I'm not moving anything except my fingers while typing this comment. Moreover, I'm not trying to win anything and we're just discussing here. Moving the goalposts would be something silly to do, if I ever attempted it. 2. No, you asked whether the clarity of the fonts contribute to the safety of the whole car, and I said "yes!", and will say again. Your question lacks a comparison relative to anything, so it stands on its own. Again, for the third time, legibility of anything inside (and around) the car is a contributor to security of it. 3. Again, citing myself, I told that we shall reduce touch controls and increase physical ones. I mean that comment is 2 days old. I can't edit it in, can I? However, by citing displays I again openly mentioned "digital instrument clusters", and displays attached to controls like climate controls' displays sitting in proximity of rotary dials most of the time. Legibility of these things are equally important as blind controls, because if your car wants your attention, you need to understand what's happening as quickly as possible. I believe there's a clear misunderstanding going on, and I honestly don't know what to do and say, because you're stuffing words in my mouth. I'll probably go make tea. Happy (belated) merry Christmas and happy new year. Please drive safe, and be attentive to road.