9 ms·

Don’t Work for Assholes

146 points by danw 18y ago

swombat 18y ago
The one question that's not really answered there is, what if you can't afford not to work for said asshole? In these recession times, sometimes you may really not have a choice. "I just really need the money" is a valid statement in some circumstances. The other things he mentions (like the bullet-proof contract, money in advance, and established deliverables) are a good way to protect yourself if you MUST work for an asshole.
- harpastum 18y ago
  Well, if you can't afford not to, you can't afford not to. Period. The author is simply stating that of all of the variables you control in choosing clientele, making sure they aren't assholes should be near the top of the list. It's a better choice to take a lower-paying gig with a reasonable person than twice your rate with an impossible client.
- azanar 18y ago
  In these recession times, or in any other times, it can be difficult to tell the difference between really not having a choice, and seeming to not have a choice because of the internalization of the same platitudes one hears repeated incessantly. Needing the money is a valid concern, but as I am reminded of almost constantly by those around me, don't confuse a legitimate need for the money with the social pressure of remaining at one's current lifestyle masquerading as a need. Image and social class are not the only thing worth being concerned about, especially if worrying about them doesn't get you closer to being happy. Really, I think far more people work for assholes than honestly are trapped doing so. Also, your second thought reminded me of this thread earlier yesterday: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=462338 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=462338. The author's philosophy seems to be to assume the other person is an asshole, until they prove otherwise. This thread advocates what almost seems like the opposite viewpoint; that if one assumes everyone is a dishonest shyster, it is actually worse for business than not assuming so and just dealing with getting burned a few times.
  - jacquesm 18y ago
    "don't confuse a legitimate need for the money with the social pressure of remaining at one's current lifestyle masquerading as a need." That's not only a problem in people that are self-employed, and it is a very big obstacle to people feeling happy. When it comes to 'need' it is surprising how few things you really need.
  - sabat 18y ago
    That sounds good in theoretical terms. Sounds just fine. Live it, though, and you may change your mind. For instance, when that "lifestyle" you speak of means giving your child a decent upbringing in a reasonable neighborhood -- I'll work for an asshole to protect that, sorry.
kurtosis 18y ago
There are a lot of people who do great work who are complete assholes in person. They didn't get to be great at what they do by being polite or tolerant of crappy work. If they think that you are mediocre or are doing low-quality work they won't hesitate to let you know this. At first, this left me humiliated and angry. Other people lost their motivation and quit. Now I actually respect not having every criticism sugar-coated in a thick shell of polite double-talk. I'm so used to asshole behavior it doesn't really bother me anymore. I regard this to be a strength. If it doesn't kill you... I just hope it hasn't made me into too much of an asshole. As for haggling over payment? Well in the real world you're going to have to be tough in negotiations demand what you want and follow-up to get it. This is probably the least excusable asshole behaviour of those mentioned.
- thinkzig 18y ago
  I don't regard that type of behavior as a strength at all. There are also lots of people who do great work that are not complete assholes in person. They have the same intolerance for crappy work and same ability to give feedback as assholes, but are able to do it in a way that doesn't leave the other party feeling humiliated and angry. It's not hard to be direct and explicit about what you want without being an asshole. It's just that the assholes don't bother. That's why they're assholes. :)
  - kurtosis 18y ago
    Okay maybe we mean different things - when I talk to people who complain that a boss or coworker is treating them like an asshole, when I ask for more details I find that by "asshole behavior" they just mean that they are being direct and explicit in their criticism. Hell, I've spoken with people who think that any critical comment is asshole behavior. I don't see how it's possible to be direct and explicit in criticism without offending some people. I've gotten called out on bad work before and it's painful, but without this feedback it's difficult to improve. A good friend of mine thinks that their advisor is an asshole because if they aren't there on the weekend running their experiment their advisor will come in and do it. Now I agree that this is borderline jerk behavior / micromanagement, but what do you do if you hire someone that doesn't work to your standards? Leave the machines idle?
lionhearted 18y ago
Nice piece, great sentiment, except the very dangerous: "Nine times out of ten, the first impression someone gives you is exactly who they are." Not true! Had a partner embezzle money from my company who seemed like a really nice guy. Most people can be charismatic and polite for even a year at a time before their true colors come out. To get a real idea about someone, you need to get to know their character. The more important someone is to your future success, the more you need to really investigate their past relationships and see how they acted after the infatuation was over.
- StrawberryFrog 18y ago
  Right. A bad first impression is a bad sign. The reverse (A good first impression) is not necessarily the case.
  - briancooley 18y ago
    Especially in a situation where the prospective client should be on his best behavior.
  - brl 18y ago
    I think you can easily make mistakes judging people in both directions. It's just that making a false negative error (not identifying an asshole) can turn out a lot worse than a false positive (judging somebody as an asshole who really isn't) so it's prudent to be sensitive to bad first impressions.
    - azanar 18y ago
      Agreed. But, for those who might be looking to this thread for advice on how to detect assholes as early as possible, know the difference between prudence and cynicism. Be cautious, but don't start out assuming that someone's good impression is just a facade, otherwise the entire rest of that relationship will be tainted by that. It also doesn't hurt to go back later and try to understand why you had the gut feeling that the person is an asshole. Knowing what sort of cognitive biases you may have, either from instinct or socialization, will likely help the false positive rate. And the more you are considerate about things, the less you might be likely to come off as a prejudicial asshole to someone else.
josefresco 18y ago
I too worked for an asshole, but not in the freelance capacity but as an employee. The worst part was he would recognize that he was an asshole and apologize all the time, only to go back to being an asshole soon after. I always wanted to tell him that recognizing that you're an asshole and not breaking the behavior was worse than someone who's an asshole and doesn't know it.
- walesmd 18y ago
  I am, admittedly, one of those assholes. I don't characterize myself as rude (I keep my mouth closed when I chew, I stay away from others and doorways when I smoke, I hold doors open for people). But, if you get in a conversation with me, I will take control. I tend to talk over people to get my point across (although I don't care whether you agree with me or not, not in an attempt to convince) and I tend to talk to much. Lately, the past 3 months, I have walked away from many conversations thinking, "Damn, I didn't let them say anything. What an asshole." Working on changing it - guess I just get caught up in the discussion.
  - helveticaman 18y ago
    Have you tried Ritalin?
  - donw 18y ago
    I tend to be the same way, and I think that simply having an awareness that you're dominating the conversation is a big first step. What are some techniques that you use to stop yourself from stomping over everybody else, at least verbally?
    - walesmd 18y ago
      My primary focus, for the time, has just been to not start talking until there is a breaking point in the conversation. I find that is what drives people up the wall the most - when they can't finish a thought because I am interjecting. As I think on it, this has been a recent development. I wonder if it stems from my daughter starting to talk a year ago. My life has become a cloud of "uh uh", "yeah", "allright!" and generally sounding excited about completely unstimulating conversation. When I can have a discussion with someone that challenges me, it's very exciting and usually the highlight of my day.
dpapathanasiou 18y ago
"Nine times out of ten, the first impression someone gives you is exactly who they are. We choose not to see it because we need the money, or we want the situation to be different." That reminds me of the worst job I ever had. I went into the interview really, really wanting the position (from the outside, they looked like they were doing some amazing things). I got there, was underwhelmed by the person I talked to, and despite my misgivings, took the job exactly because I wanted it to be something it was not. Huge mistake.
anthonyrubin 18y ago
I just finished listening to the Design View podcast yesterday. Andy covers this topic in a few of the shows. Unfortunately he only did 8 shows in 2007, but they are all quite good. http://show.andyrutledge.com/ http://show.andyrutledge.com/
edw519 18y ago
Competent + Nice = Best Combination Competent + Asshole = I'll put up with them Incompetent + Nice = I'll hold their hand Incompetent + Asshole = You've got to be kidding
- sspencer 18y ago
  Someone should make a "Co-Worker Punnett Square" with these options. But which traits are dominant and which are recessive? ;)
  - potatolicious 18y ago
    Actually, since we're talking about traits/phenotypes (instead of genotypes), this would be a truth table, not a Punnett square ;)
- anthonyrubin 18y ago
  What if Incompetent + Nice never becomes Competent + Nice and they hold the same position that you do?
  - edw519 18y ago
    Although this model can apply to anyone, I was originally referring to clients. If you have a client who is Incompetent + Nice and never becomes Competent + Nice, then either you need to do a better job of hand holding, or you may just have to settle for steady revenue that you have to work for. Either way, you both win.
- derefr 18y ago
  Reminds me of H-B situational leadership theory (with the client analogous to one's "followers", and "willingness to perform" analogous to assholery; see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hersey-Blanchard_situational_theory http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hersey-Blanchard_situational_th...) You want a client in the R4 or R2 performance readiness level, are willing to put up with an R3, and don't want to deal with R1s (no one does; unlike R1 employees, R1 clients aren't worth the investment.)
- 18y ago
comatose_kid 18y ago
This includes managers at s/w companies as well. My department at bigCo was just re-organized, and I have a new boss. At our first one-on-one meeting, he casually mentioned that he was 'not a micro-manager'. This immediately caught my attention - when a manager says this, they invariably turn out to be micro-managers. Since then, I have had to report my status 3 times a week, and he writes detailed emails laying out how I should do my job. As far as I can tell, he is like this with all of his reports. Needless to say, I'm seriously considering quitting. I recently got my green card, so freelance work is now an option....
- erik 18y ago
  Have you considered telling your new boss how you feel about his management style? It may be possible to improve the situation.
- ajju 18y ago
  Wow. I have to report status 3 times a day! I want to quit as soon as I can, but I always thought this frquency was the norm not the exception.Are you saying majority of the big co bosses ask you for status less than 3 times a week?
  - forthewin 18y ago
    At my last job, we had biweekly status meetings that sometimes slipped to once a month?
    - robotron 18y ago
      I have to barely report once a week.... but this certainly isn't BigCo as far as number of employees go.
kzar 18y ago
Yea I have learned this lesson myself, it's true. I think a lot of the time it costs you more to do the work than to walk away.
pg 18y ago
More generally, don't have dealings with assholes. Don't work for them, don't hire them, don't have them as cofounders, don't take investment from them. One of the things I always ask speakers at YC is what they know now that they didn't know when they were 25. The most common answer is probably to trust their instincts about people. When you run into a person who's bad news, there's often a little voice inside you saying "watch out." When you're young, you feel like you should ignore it, because it seems so arbitrary.
- derefr 18y ago
  Does this extend to not selling your product to, or marketing to, assholes? I can see "don't have assholes as repeat/contract-based clients" as obvious, but what about "don't have assholes as one-time customers?" If you never have to deal with them again, does it matter?
  - helveticaman 18y ago
    I can think of two exceptions that support the rule: Very impersonal transactions: say you're running a kiosk, and a guy comes up to buy a candy bar, and you recognize him from college, but know he's an asshole. You can still sell him that candy bar. Smaller of two assholes: there will be times when you will have to deal with an asshole to avoid an even bigger asshole. Then it's fine; it's a life skill to be able to deal with difficult people.
  - pg 18y ago
    Yes, it's ok to have assholes as customers. One of the great things about the seller-customer relationship is that it's proof against that. When you have asshole customers, it's usually possible to turn them by being really nice to them. This doesn't seem to be the case with bosses. So that is another great thing about the seller-customer relationship. I think the key is that there is no authority mixed into it. Assholes and authority are a bad combination.
  - chris11 18y ago
    I think it could work out as long as you know what you are willing to accept. If somebody demands a discount from you, just tell them no. If somebody you up demanding that you drop everything to work on their problem right then, just let them know that you are concerned about their problem, when you except to try and deal with it, and quickly cut the conversation short. As long as you deal with them in a way that is acceptable to you, you have lost almost nothing selling them a product once if they treat you badly. And you have gained some money, and as PG said if you treat them fairly and very nicely, they might change.
almost 18y ago
Sounds like good advice to me. Life's too short.... One minor bit that got me wondering though. He talks about a "bullet proof contract", anyone else here doing freelancing use a contract? I've not ever used one and wouldn't really feel right doing so. Also I wonder how possible it is to get one that really is bullet proof... Anyone with experiences to share?
- fraying 18y ago
  If you don't use a contract, you have no protection when a client refuses to pay. Also, legally, the client does not own your work until you assign it to them. A contract covers both parties.
jayroh 18y ago
I have you guys to thank for getting this on the front page, and for Derek Powazek for writing this. I listened to my inner voice today after having read this post a few days ago ... a potential client that was nickel-and-diming me on scope and price on a fixed project sent over PSD's to be sliced and produced. Scope was - front-end work and interaction design, no back end. So when I asked him about a contact form he wanted written and whether they were prepared with a php script, or something, to post TO ... he got huffy and asked - "ARE YOU A PROGRAMMER OR WHAT?! YOU SAID YOU WERE A PROGRAMMER" ... orly? After telling him his tone was inappropriate and disrespectful I told him we wouldn't be working together. his response? "OK" /hangs up Haha - goodbye asshole! It was nice not working for you!
dc2k08 18y ago
I would like to see the bullet-proof contract.
kleneway 18y ago
Best advice I've ever gotten: "Doesn't matter where you are or what you are doing, just who you are with." That one hasn't let me down yet.
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146 points by danw 18y ago

The one question that's not really answered there is, what if you can't afford not to work for said asshole? In these recession times, sometimes you may really not have a choice. "I just really need the money" is a valid statement in some circumstances. The other things he mentions (like the bullet-proof contract, money in advance, and established deliverables) are a good way to protect yourself if you MUST work for an asshole.

harpastum 18y ago
Well, if you can't afford not to, you can't afford not to. Period. The author is simply stating that of all of the variables you control in choosing clientele, making sure they aren't assholes should be near the top of the list. It's a better choice to take a lower-paying gig with a reasonable person than twice your rate with an impossible client.
azanar 18y ago
In these recession times, or in any other times, it can be difficult to tell the difference between really not having a choice, and seeming to not have a choice because of the internalization of the same platitudes one hears repeated incessantly. Needing the money is a valid concern, but as I am reminded of almost constantly by those around me, don't confuse a legitimate need for the money with the social pressure of remaining at one's current lifestyle masquerading as a need. Image and social class are not the only thing worth being concerned about, especially if worrying about them doesn't get you closer to being happy. Really, I think far more people work for assholes than honestly are trapped doing so. Also, your second thought reminded me of this thread earlier yesterday: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=462338 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=462338. The author's philosophy seems to be to assume the other person is an asshole, until they prove otherwise. This thread advocates what almost seems like the opposite viewpoint; that if one assumes everyone is a dishonest shyster, it is actually worse for business than not assuming so and just dealing with getting burned a few times.
- jacquesm 18y ago
  "don't confuse a legitimate need for the money with the social pressure of remaining at one's current lifestyle masquerading as a need." That's not only a problem in people that are self-employed, and it is a very big obstacle to people feeling happy. When it comes to 'need' it is surprising how few things you really need.
- sabat 18y ago
  That sounds good in theoretical terms. Sounds just fine. Live it, though, and you may change your mind. For instance, when that "lifestyle" you speak of means giving your child a decent upbringing in a reasonable neighborhood -- I'll work for an asshole to protect that, sorry.

kurtosis 18y ago

There are a lot of people who do great work who are complete assholes in person. They didn't get to be great at what they do by being polite or tolerant of crappy work. If they think that you are mediocre or are doing low-quality work they won't hesitate to let you know this. At first, this left me humiliated and angry. Other people lost their motivation and quit. Now I actually respect not having every criticism sugar-coated in a thick shell of polite double-talk. I'm so used to asshole behavior it doesn't really bother me anymore. I regard this to be a strength. If it doesn't kill you... I just hope it hasn't made me into too much of an asshole. As for haggling over payment? Well in the real world you're going to have to be tough in negotiations demand what you want and follow-up to get it. This is probably the least excusable asshole behaviour of those mentioned.

thinkzig 18y ago
I don't regard that type of behavior as a strength at all. There are also lots of people who do great work that are not complete assholes in person. They have the same intolerance for crappy work and same ability to give feedback as assholes, but are able to do it in a way that doesn't leave the other party feeling humiliated and angry. It's not hard to be direct and explicit about what you want without being an asshole. It's just that the assholes don't bother. That's why they're assholes. :)
- kurtosis 18y ago
  Okay maybe we mean different things - when I talk to people who complain that a boss or coworker is treating them like an asshole, when I ask for more details I find that by "asshole behavior" they just mean that they are being direct and explicit in their criticism. Hell, I've spoken with people who think that any critical comment is asshole behavior. I don't see how it's possible to be direct and explicit in criticism without offending some people. I've gotten called out on bad work before and it's painful, but without this feedback it's difficult to improve. A good friend of mine thinks that their advisor is an asshole because if they aren't there on the weekend running their experiment their advisor will come in and do it. Now I agree that this is borderline jerk behavior / micromanagement, but what do you do if you hire someone that doesn't work to your standards? Leave the machines idle?

lionhearted 18y ago

Nice piece, great sentiment, except the very dangerous: "Nine times out of ten, the first impression someone gives you is exactly who they are." Not true! Had a partner embezzle money from my company who seemed like a really nice guy. Most people can be charismatic and polite for even a year at a time before their true colors come out. To get a real idea about someone, you need to get to know their character. The more important someone is to your future success, the more you need to really investigate their past relationships and see how they acted after the infatuation was over.

StrawberryFrog 18y ago
Right. A bad first impression is a bad sign. The reverse (A good first impression) is not necessarily the case.
- briancooley 18y ago
  Especially in a situation where the prospective client should be on his best behavior.
- brl 18y ago
  I think you can easily make mistakes judging people in both directions. It's just that making a false negative error (not identifying an asshole) can turn out a lot worse than a false positive (judging somebody as an asshole who really isn't) so it's prudent to be sensitive to bad first impressions.
  - azanar 18y ago
    Agreed. But, for those who might be looking to this thread for advice on how to detect assholes as early as possible, know the difference between prudence and cynicism. Be cautious, but don't start out assuming that someone's good impression is just a facade, otherwise the entire rest of that relationship will be tainted by that. It also doesn't hurt to go back later and try to understand why you had the gut feeling that the person is an asshole. Knowing what sort of cognitive biases you may have, either from instinct or socialization, will likely help the false positive rate. And the more you are considerate about things, the less you might be likely to come off as a prejudicial asshole to someone else.

josefresco 18y ago

I too worked for an asshole, but not in the freelance capacity but as an employee. The worst part was he would recognize that he was an asshole and apologize all the time, only to go back to being an asshole soon after. I always wanted to tell him that recognizing that you're an asshole and not breaking the behavior was worse than someone who's an asshole and doesn't know it.

walesmd 18y ago
I am, admittedly, one of those assholes. I don't characterize myself as rude (I keep my mouth closed when I chew, I stay away from others and doorways when I smoke, I hold doors open for people). But, if you get in a conversation with me, I will take control. I tend to talk over people to get my point across (although I don't care whether you agree with me or not, not in an attempt to convince) and I tend to talk to much. Lately, the past 3 months, I have walked away from many conversations thinking, "Damn, I didn't let them say anything. What an asshole." Working on changing it - guess I just get caught up in the discussion.
- helveticaman 18y ago
  Have you tried Ritalin?
- donw 18y ago
  I tend to be the same way, and I think that simply having an awareness that you're dominating the conversation is a big first step. What are some techniques that you use to stop yourself from stomping over everybody else, at least verbally?
  - walesmd 18y ago
    My primary focus, for the time, has just been to not start talking until there is a breaking point in the conversation. I find that is what drives people up the wall the most - when they can't finish a thought because I am interjecting. As I think on it, this has been a recent development. I wonder if it stems from my daughter starting to talk a year ago. My life has become a cloud of "uh uh", "yeah", "allright!" and generally sounding excited about completely unstimulating conversation. When I can have a discussion with someone that challenges me, it's very exciting and usually the highlight of my day.

dpapathanasiou 18y ago

"Nine times out of ten, the first impression someone gives you is exactly who they are. We choose not to see it because we need the money, or we want the situation to be different." That reminds me of the worst job I ever had. I went into the interview really, really wanting the position (from the outside, they looked like they were doing some amazing things). I got there, was underwhelmed by the person I talked to, and despite my misgivings, took the job exactly because I wanted it to be something it was not. Huge mistake.

anthonyrubin 18y ago

I just finished listening to the Design View podcast yesterday. Andy covers this topic in a few of the shows. Unfortunately he only did 8 shows in 2007, but they are all quite good. http://show.andyrutledge.com/ http://show.andyrutledge.com/

edw519 18y ago

Competent + Nice = Best Combination Competent + Asshole = I'll put up with them Incompetent + Nice = I'll hold their hand Incompetent + Asshole = You've got to be kidding

sspencer 18y ago
Someone should make a "Co-Worker Punnett Square" with these options. But which traits are dominant and which are recessive? ;)
- potatolicious 18y ago
  Actually, since we're talking about traits/phenotypes (instead of genotypes), this would be a truth table, not a Punnett square ;)
anthonyrubin 18y ago
What if Incompetent + Nice never becomes Competent + Nice and they hold the same position that you do?
- edw519 18y ago
  Although this model can apply to anyone, I was originally referring to clients. If you have a client who is Incompetent + Nice and never becomes Competent + Nice, then either you need to do a better job of hand holding, or you may just have to settle for steady revenue that you have to work for. Either way, you both win.
derefr 18y ago
Reminds me of H-B situational leadership theory (with the client analogous to one's "followers", and "willingness to perform" analogous to assholery; see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hersey-Blanchard_situational_theory http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hersey-Blanchard_situational_th...) You want a client in the R4 or R2 performance readiness level, are willing to put up with an R3, and don't want to deal with R1s (no one does; unlike R1 employees, R1 clients aren't worth the investment.)
18y ago

comatose_kid 18y ago

This includes managers at s/w companies as well. My department at bigCo was just re-organized, and I have a new boss. At our first one-on-one meeting, he casually mentioned that he was 'not a micro-manager'. This immediately caught my attention - when a manager says this, they invariably turn out to be micro-managers. Since then, I have had to report my status 3 times a week, and he writes detailed emails laying out how I should do my job. As far as I can tell, he is like this with all of his reports. Needless to say, I'm seriously considering quitting. I recently got my green card, so freelance work is now an option....

erik 18y ago
Have you considered telling your new boss how you feel about his management style? It may be possible to improve the situation.
ajju 18y ago
Wow. I have to report status 3 times a day! I want to quit as soon as I can, but I always thought this frquency was the norm not the exception.Are you saying majority of the big co bosses ask you for status less than 3 times a week?
- forthewin 18y ago
  At my last job, we had biweekly status meetings that sometimes slipped to once a month?
  - robotron 18y ago
    I have to barely report once a week.... but this certainly isn't BigCo as far as number of employees go.

kzar 18y ago

Yea I have learned this lesson myself, it's true. I think a lot of the time it costs you more to do the work than to walk away.

pg 18y ago

More generally, don't have dealings with assholes. Don't work for them, don't hire them, don't have them as cofounders, don't take investment from them. One of the things I always ask speakers at YC is what they know now that they didn't know when they were 25. The most common answer is probably to trust their instincts about people. When you run into a person who's bad news, there's often a little voice inside you saying "watch out." When you're young, you feel like you should ignore it, because it seems so arbitrary.

derefr 18y ago
Does this extend to not selling your product to, or marketing to, assholes? I can see "don't have assholes as repeat/contract-based clients" as obvious, but what about "don't have assholes as one-time customers?" If you never have to deal with them again, does it matter?
- helveticaman 18y ago
  I can think of two exceptions that support the rule: Very impersonal transactions: say you're running a kiosk, and a guy comes up to buy a candy bar, and you recognize him from college, but know he's an asshole. You can still sell him that candy bar. Smaller of two assholes: there will be times when you will have to deal with an asshole to avoid an even bigger asshole. Then it's fine; it's a life skill to be able to deal with difficult people.
- pg 18y ago
  Yes, it's ok to have assholes as customers. One of the great things about the seller-customer relationship is that it's proof against that. When you have asshole customers, it's usually possible to turn them by being really nice to them. This doesn't seem to be the case with bosses. So that is another great thing about the seller-customer relationship. I think the key is that there is no authority mixed into it. Assholes and authority are a bad combination.
- chris11 18y ago
  I think it could work out as long as you know what you are willing to accept. If somebody demands a discount from you, just tell them no. If somebody you up demanding that you drop everything to work on their problem right then, just let them know that you are concerned about their problem, when you except to try and deal with it, and quickly cut the conversation short. As long as you deal with them in a way that is acceptable to you, you have lost almost nothing selling them a product once if they treat you badly. And you have gained some money, and as PG said if you treat them fairly and very nicely, they might change.

almost 18y ago

Sounds like good advice to me. Life's too short.... One minor bit that got me wondering though. He talks about a "bullet proof contract", anyone else here doing freelancing use a contract? I've not ever used one and wouldn't really feel right doing so. Also I wonder how possible it is to get one that really is bullet proof... Anyone with experiences to share?

fraying 18y ago
If you don't use a contract, you have no protection when a client refuses to pay. Also, legally, the client does not own your work until you assign it to them. A contract covers both parties.

jayroh 18y ago

I have you guys to thank for getting this on the front page, and for Derek Powazek for writing this. I listened to my inner voice today after having read this post a few days ago ... a potential client that was nickel-and-diming me on scope and price on a fixed project sent over PSD's to be sliced and produced. Scope was - front-end work and interaction design, no back end. So when I asked him about a contact form he wanted written and whether they were prepared with a php script, or something, to post TO ... he got huffy and asked - "ARE YOU A PROGRAMMER OR WHAT?! YOU SAID YOU WERE A PROGRAMMER" ... orly? After telling him his tone was inappropriate and disrespectful I told him we wouldn't be working together. his response? "OK" /hangs up Haha - goodbye asshole! It was nice not working for you!

dc2k08 18y ago

I would like to see the bullet-proof contract.

kleneway 18y ago

Best advice I've ever gotten: "Doesn't matter where you are or what you are doing, just who you are with." That one hasn't let me down yet.

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