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> While we successfully traversed more than 7,000 dark signals on Saturday, the outage created a concentrated spike in these requests. This created a backlog th

> While we successfully traversed more than 7,000 dark signals on Saturday, the outage created a concentrated spike in these requests. This created a backlog that, in some cases, led to response delays contributing to congestion on already-overwhelmed streets. We established these confirmation protocols out of an abundance of caution during our early deployment, and we are now refining them to match our current scale. While this strategy was effective during smaller outages, we are now implementing fleet-wide updates that provide the Driver with specific power outage context, allowing it to navigate more decisively. Sounds like it was and you’re not correctly understanding the complexity of running this at scale.

jeroenhd 10mo ago
Sounds like their disaster recovery plan was insufficient, intensified traffic jams in already congested areas because of "backlog", and is now being fixed to support the current scale. The fact this backlog created issues indicates that it's perhaps Waymo that doesn't understand the complexity of running at that scale, because their systems got overwhelmed.
- shafyy 10mo ago
  They probably do, they just don't give a shit. It's still the "move fast and break things" mindset. Internalize profits but externalize failures to be carried by the public. Will there be legal consequences for Waymo (i.e. fines?) for this? Probably not...
  - atherton94027 10mo ago
    Waymo cars have been proven safer than human drivers in California. At the same time, 40k people die each year in the US in car accidents caused by human drivers. I'm very happy they're moving fast so hopefully fewer people die in the future
    - shafyy 10mo ago
      Both things can be true. They can be safer, but at the same time Waymo can still externalize stuff to the public...
      - arcfour 10mo ago
        Who cares? Honestly?
        jcgl 10mo ago
        …the public?
  - browningstreet 10mo ago
    What Waymo profits? They're one-of-one still. Having ridden in a Waymo many times, there's very little "move fast and break things" leaking in the experience. They can simulate power outages as much as they want (testing) but the production break had some surprises. This is a technical forum.. most of us have been there.. bad things happened, plans weren't sufficient, we can measure their response on the next iteration in terms of how they respond to production insufficiencies in the next event. Also, culturally speaking, "they suck" isn't really a working response to an RCA.
  - fragmede 10mo ago
    "Move fast and break things" is a Facebook slogan. Applying it to Google or Waymo just doesn’t fit. If anything, Waymo is moving too slow. 100 people are going to die in seven days from drunk drivers and New Years in the US. How's that for a real world trolley problem?
    - shafyy 10mo ago
      The most effective way of decreasing traffic deaths is safer driving laws, as the recent example of Helsinki has shown. That and better public transportation infrastructure. If you think that a giant, private, for-profit company cares about people's lives, you are in for a ride.
      - arcfour 10mo ago
        > The most effective way of decreasing traffic deaths is safer driving laws This is almost hilariously false. "Oh yeah, those words on paper? Well, they actually physically stopped me from running the red light and plowing into 4 pedestrians!" > If you think that a giant, private, for-profit company cares about people's lives, you are in for a ride. I honestly wonder how leftists manage to delude themselves so heavily? I'm sure a bunch of politicians really have my best interests at heart. Lol
        shafyy 10mo ago
        > This is almost hilariously false. "Oh yeah, those words on paper? Well, they actually physically stopped me from running the red light and plowing into 4 pedestrians!" It's very clearly proven that hitting a pedestrian with 50 km/h is exponentially more dangerous than hitting them with 30 km/h. It's very clearly proven that having physically separted bike lines prevents deaths. It's very clearly proven that other measure like speed bumps, one-way streets, smart traffic routing prevents deaths. And I am not even going to respond to your idiotic "leftist" statement.
        arcfour 10mo ago
        It's very clearly proven that murder is dangerous, yet people still commit it. You still have not explained how laws stop things from happening, as if by magic. > And I am not even going to respond to your idiotic "leftist" statement. This says more about you than it does me. Taking the most cynical view possible, at least a for profit company has a profit motive to keep me alive unlike a bureaucrat. A bureaucrat doesn't lose their salary if traffic deaths go up. In fact, if a problem gets worse, they often receive more funding to fix it. If a government road is dangerous, you cannot easily fire the government and switch to a competitor's road. The success you mentioned in Helsinki wasn't a triumph of law; it was a triumph of engineering. The question is not whether we want safety, but which system—a state monopoly with no financial penalty for failure, or a private entity that faces financial ruin if it kills its customers—is more likely to engender it.
- kotaKat 10mo ago
  DR always stands for "didn't realize" in the aftermath of an event. That's what they're learning and fixing for in the future to give the cars more self-confidence.
- vlovich123 10mo ago
  What about San Francisco allowing a power outage of this magnitude and not being able to restore power for multiple days? This kind of attitude to me indicates a lack of experience building complex systems and responding to unexpected events. If they had done the opposite and been overly aggressive in letting Waymo’s manage themselves during lights that are out would you be the first in line criticizing them then for some accident happening? All things being considered, I’m much happier knowing Waymo is taking a conservative approach if the downside means extra momentary street congestion during a major power outage; that’s much rarer than being cavalier with fully autonomous behavior.

jeroenhd 10mo ago

Sounds like their disaster recovery plan was insufficient, intensified traffic jams in already congested areas because of "backlog", and is now being fixed to support the current scale. The fact this backlog created issues indicates that it's perhaps Waymo that doesn't understand the complexity of running at that scale, because their systems got overwhelmed.

shafyy 10mo ago
They probably do, they just don't give a shit. It's still the "move fast and break things" mindset. Internalize profits but externalize failures to be carried by the public. Will there be legal consequences for Waymo (i.e. fines?) for this? Probably not...
- atherton94027 10mo ago
  Waymo cars have been proven safer than human drivers in California. At the same time, 40k people die each year in the US in car accidents caused by human drivers. I'm very happy they're moving fast so hopefully fewer people die in the future
  - shafyy 10mo ago
    Both things can be true. They can be safer, but at the same time Waymo can still externalize stuff to the public...
    - arcfour 10mo ago
      Who cares? Honestly?
      - jcgl 10mo ago
        …the public?
- browningstreet 10mo ago
  What Waymo profits? They're one-of-one still. Having ridden in a Waymo many times, there's very little "move fast and break things" leaking in the experience. They can simulate power outages as much as they want (testing) but the production break had some surprises. This is a technical forum.. most of us have been there.. bad things happened, plans weren't sufficient, we can measure their response on the next iteration in terms of how they respond to production insufficiencies in the next event. Also, culturally speaking, "they suck" isn't really a working response to an RCA.
- fragmede 10mo ago
  "Move fast and break things" is a Facebook slogan. Applying it to Google or Waymo just doesn’t fit. If anything, Waymo is moving too slow. 100 people are going to die in seven days from drunk drivers and New Years in the US. How's that for a real world trolley problem?
  - shafyy 10mo ago
    The most effective way of decreasing traffic deaths is safer driving laws, as the recent example of Helsinki has shown. That and better public transportation infrastructure. If you think that a giant, private, for-profit company cares about people's lives, you are in for a ride.
    - arcfour 10mo ago
      > The most effective way of decreasing traffic deaths is safer driving laws This is almost hilariously false. "Oh yeah, those words on paper? Well, they actually physically stopped me from running the red light and plowing into 4 pedestrians!" > If you think that a giant, private, for-profit company cares about people's lives, you are in for a ride. I honestly wonder how leftists manage to delude themselves so heavily? I'm sure a bunch of politicians really have my best interests at heart. Lol
      - shafyy 10mo ago
        > This is almost hilariously false. "Oh yeah, those words on paper? Well, they actually physically stopped me from running the red light and plowing into 4 pedestrians!" It's very clearly proven that hitting a pedestrian with 50 km/h is exponentially more dangerous than hitting them with 30 km/h. It's very clearly proven that having physically separted bike lines prevents deaths. It's very clearly proven that other measure like speed bumps, one-way streets, smart traffic routing prevents deaths. And I am not even going to respond to your idiotic "leftist" statement.
        arcfour 10mo ago
        It's very clearly proven that murder is dangerous, yet people still commit it. You still have not explained how laws stop things from happening, as if by magic. > And I am not even going to respond to your idiotic "leftist" statement. This says more about you than it does me. Taking the most cynical view possible, at least a for profit company has a profit motive to keep me alive unlike a bureaucrat. A bureaucrat doesn't lose their salary if traffic deaths go up. In fact, if a problem gets worse, they often receive more funding to fix it. If a government road is dangerous, you cannot easily fire the government and switch to a competitor's road. The success you mentioned in Helsinki wasn't a triumph of law; it was a triumph of engineering. The question is not whether we want safety, but which system—a state monopoly with no financial penalty for failure, or a private entity that faces financial ruin if it kills its customers—is more likely to engender it.
kotaKat 10mo ago
DR always stands for "didn't realize" in the aftermath of an event. That's what they're learning and fixing for in the future to give the cars more self-confidence.
vlovich123 10mo ago
What about San Francisco allowing a power outage of this magnitude and not being able to restore power for multiple days? This kind of attitude to me indicates a lack of experience building complex systems and responding to unexpected events. If they had done the opposite and been overly aggressive in letting Waymo’s manage themselves during lights that are out would you be the first in line criticizing them then for some accident happening? All things being considered, I’m much happier knowing Waymo is taking a conservative approach if the downside means extra momentary street congestion during a major power outage; that’s much rarer than being cavalier with fully autonomous behavior.