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Definition in the Oxford dictionary: "Of, pertaining to, or characterized by autonomy; self-governing, independent; free of external influence or control." Sel

by bgwalter 10mo ago

Definition in the Oxford dictionary: "Of, pertaining to, or characterized by autonomy; self-governing, independent; free of external influence or control." Self-driving car advertisers like Musk or Waymo just want to co-opt this term because it sounds cool. The term also deliberately hides the fact that these vehicles surveil and track you. EDIT: It is the full definition in the printed Shorter Oxford English Dictionary (which is a large two volume publication). It is understandable that morons downvote it.

ssl-3 10mo ago
In this context, I think I prefer to use this definition from the Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary: "(of a vehicle) that has the technology to drive itself without a person in control" I think it fits the state of affairs well-enough. https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/us/definition/english/autonomous https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/us/definition/eng...
- bgwalter 10mo ago
  That is a sad state of affairs, I hope it does not make it into the printed edition. The same applies to "autonomous drones", which are the most remote assisted machines imaginable. But of course the advertising departments want to evoke an image of the Marlboro man saddling his horse rather than a GPS tracked, surveillance riddled, face scanning, remote assisted contraption.
  - ssl-3 10mo ago
    English is flexible. It changes, and it evolves. It was not the same yesterday as it is today, and it will not be the same tomorrow. It will certainly be a thing if you ever decide to update the print library that you elect to expose yourself to something recent. --- It may be appropriate to have medical professionals like paramedics (with transport units) standing by at that time. There's no telling how you might react, and I myself really very strongly prefer for all people to be safe.
fc417fc802 10mo ago
Most things aren't absolutes. This is no exception. The vehicles can operate on their own the majority of the time. That is a form of autonomy, albeit incomplete. You are subject to road signs, traffic, police directions, etc while driving. In the event of a natural disaster it seems feasible that you could end up in a situation where you don't know how you ought to proceed. So neither are you "free of external influence or control" in an absolute sense.
- bgwalter 10mo ago
  A human driver does not have to call a remote operator if the traffic lights are off. This situation does not require a sophistic argument that we are not autonomous because we rely on the sun. If a child walks alone to school without asking for directions, it walks autonomously. If it has to call its parents or uses a GPS phone, it is not autonomous. This is really not that hard.
  - fc417fc802 10mo ago
    Certainly. However it shouldn't be too difficult to imagine a scenario where the typical human driver would not know how to respond in a safe manner. Thus the presence of "uncertain how to respond" in a limited subset of scenarios remains consistent with the term "autonomous" as it appears in general usage. > If it has to call its parents or uses a GPS phone, it is not autonomous. You ought to be able to imagine plenty of scenarios where this would be the case (ie the child got lost) and yet clearly you still believe the child to qualify as autonomous. Analogously, the vehicles are not necessarily disqualified as being considered such despite being unable to independently navigate in some subset of scenarios.
  - matthewmacleod 10mo ago
    If it has to call its parents or uses a GPS phone, it is not autonomous. This is really not that hard. Obviously your point here highlights your pedantry: autonomy is not absolute. Despite being a mostly functioning and definitely autonomous human being, I sometimes have to call someone who knows better to ask for directions.
  - 10mo ago

ssl-3 10mo ago

In this context, I think I prefer to use this definition from the Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary: "(of a vehicle) that has the technology to drive itself without a person in control" I think it fits the state of affairs well-enough. https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/us/definition/english/autonomous https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/us/definition/eng...

bgwalter 10mo ago
That is a sad state of affairs, I hope it does not make it into the printed edition. The same applies to "autonomous drones", which are the most remote assisted machines imaginable. But of course the advertising departments want to evoke an image of the Marlboro man saddling his horse rather than a GPS tracked, surveillance riddled, face scanning, remote assisted contraption.
- ssl-3 10mo ago
  English is flexible. It changes, and it evolves. It was not the same yesterday as it is today, and it will not be the same tomorrow. It will certainly be a thing if you ever decide to update the print library that you elect to expose yourself to something recent. --- It may be appropriate to have medical professionals like paramedics (with transport units) standing by at that time. There's no telling how you might react, and I myself really very strongly prefer for all people to be safe.

fc417fc802 10mo ago

Most things aren't absolutes. This is no exception. The vehicles can operate on their own the majority of the time. That is a form of autonomy, albeit incomplete. You are subject to road signs, traffic, police directions, etc while driving. In the event of a natural disaster it seems feasible that you could end up in a situation where you don't know how you ought to proceed. So neither are you "free of external influence or control" in an absolute sense.

bgwalter 10mo ago
A human driver does not have to call a remote operator if the traffic lights are off. This situation does not require a sophistic argument that we are not autonomous because we rely on the sun. If a child walks alone to school without asking for directions, it walks autonomously. If it has to call its parents or uses a GPS phone, it is not autonomous. This is really not that hard.
- fc417fc802 10mo ago
  Certainly. However it shouldn't be too difficult to imagine a scenario where the typical human driver would not know how to respond in a safe manner. Thus the presence of "uncertain how to respond" in a limited subset of scenarios remains consistent with the term "autonomous" as it appears in general usage. > If it has to call its parents or uses a GPS phone, it is not autonomous. You ought to be able to imagine plenty of scenarios where this would be the case (ie the child got lost) and yet clearly you still believe the child to qualify as autonomous. Analogously, the vehicles are not necessarily disqualified as being considered such despite being unable to independently navigate in some subset of scenarios.
- matthewmacleod 10mo ago
  If it has to call its parents or uses a GPS phone, it is not autonomous. This is really not that hard. Obviously your point here highlights your pedantry: autonomy is not absolute. Despite being a mostly functioning and definitely autonomous human being, I sometimes have to call someone who knows better to ask for directions.
- 10mo ago