4 ms·

No amount of proven points will give Go null safety, though.

pjmlp 10mo ago
Yet the whole Docker, Kubernetes, CNCF ecosystem is powered by Go, doesn't seem to have been hindered by lack of null safety. Same applies to GCP, AWS and Azure, powered mostly by Java, C# and C++. People should stop being so obsessed with one specific language feature, when there is so much C and C++ code being produced every day.
- mrsmrtss 10mo ago
  And Linux kernel is written in C etc, so by this logic you don't even need memory safety. There is no good excuse for designing a language in modern times (this century) with every object nullable by default. C# at least mostly has solved this design mistake later by introducing nullable reference types (https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/csharp/nullable-references https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/csharp/nullable-ref...). Then again, Go designers insisted that generics were also unnecessary, until they changed their mind.
  - pjmlp 10mo ago
    On the contrary, because there we have 40 years of security exploits to prove otherwise, and Linux kernel has plenty of CVEs. C# solution doesn't work, most projects never adopted it, because it is a mess to use with third party libraries that never bothered to add the required annotations, hence why it is still a warning and optional to this day.
    - mrsmrtss 10mo ago
      I’m not sure which .NET libraries you are referring to, but all the ones we use have nullable reference types enabled. If you configure warnings as errors (as you should), then it works exceptionally well. Even if you were to use a library where nullable reference types are not enabled, you only need to check for null once during the library call, rather than everywhere in your codebase.
    - neonsunset 10mo ago
      What? NRTs are used everywhere with WarningAsErrors:nullable also gaining popularity. Whatever environment you are dealing with C# in, if it’s the opposite I suggest getting away from that ASAP.
      - behindsight 10mo ago
        sidenote: just a heads up that I tried emailing you recently to let you know that you might want to contact the HN mods to find out why all your comments get set to dead/hidden automatically. Your account might have triggered some flag sometime back and relies on users vouching for your comments so they can become visible again.
        gnabgib 10mo ago
        They are aware.. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44026655 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44026655
        behindsight 10mo ago
        ah thank you for the context
        neonsunset 10mo ago
        I saw the email, and thanks. This is okay - I did not exercise (nor anyone should) good impulse control when dealing with bad faith arguments, which inevitably led to an account ban. Either way, Merry Christas!

pjmlp 10mo ago

Yet the whole Docker, Kubernetes, CNCF ecosystem is powered by Go, doesn't seem to have been hindered by lack of null safety. Same applies to GCP, AWS and Azure, powered mostly by Java, C# and C++. People should stop being so obsessed with one specific language feature, when there is so much C and C++ code being produced every day.

mrsmrtss 10mo ago
And Linux kernel is written in C etc, so by this logic you don't even need memory safety. There is no good excuse for designing a language in modern times (this century) with every object nullable by default. C# at least mostly has solved this design mistake later by introducing nullable reference types (https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/csharp/nullable-references https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/csharp/nullable-ref...). Then again, Go designers insisted that generics were also unnecessary, until they changed their mind.
- pjmlp 10mo ago
  On the contrary, because there we have 40 years of security exploits to prove otherwise, and Linux kernel has plenty of CVEs. C# solution doesn't work, most projects never adopted it, because it is a mess to use with third party libraries that never bothered to add the required annotations, hence why it is still a warning and optional to this day.
  - mrsmrtss 10mo ago
    I’m not sure which .NET libraries you are referring to, but all the ones we use have nullable reference types enabled. If you configure warnings as errors (as you should), then it works exceptionally well. Even if you were to use a library where nullable reference types are not enabled, you only need to check for null once during the library call, rather than everywhere in your codebase.
  - neonsunset 10mo ago
    What? NRTs are used everywhere with WarningAsErrors:nullable also gaining popularity. Whatever environment you are dealing with C# in, if it’s the opposite I suggest getting away from that ASAP.
    - behindsight 10mo ago
      sidenote: just a heads up that I tried emailing you recently to let you know that you might want to contact the HN mods to find out why all your comments get set to dead/hidden automatically. Your account might have triggered some flag sometime back and relies on users vouching for your comments so they can become visible again.
      - gnabgib 10mo ago
        They are aware.. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44026655 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44026655
        behindsight 10mo ago
        ah thank you for the context
      - neonsunset 10mo ago
        I saw the email, and thanks. This is okay - I did not exercise (nor anyone should) good impulse control when dealing with bad faith arguments, which inevitably led to an account ban. Either way, Merry Christas!