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My point is not about the person or their accomplishments. My point is that "Microsoft to replace all C/C++ code with Rust" is a misleading title when it's actu

by wavemode 10mo ago

My point is not about the person or their accomplishments. My point is that "Microsoft to replace all C/C++ code with Rust" is a misleading title when it's actually just a stated goal of someone working on an aspirational research project.

pjmlp 10mo ago
Well, it is kind of in line with company official communication anyway, so this goal is currently a business target, > Decades of vulnerabilities have proven how difficult it is to prevent memory-corrupting bugs when using C/C++. While garbage-collected languages like C# or Java have proven more resilient to these issues, there are scenarios where they cannot be used. For such cases, we’re betting on Rust as the alternative to C/C++. Rust is a modern language designed to compete with the performance C/C++, but with memory safety and thread safety guarantees built into the language. While we are not able to rewrite everything in Rust overnight, we’ve already adopted Rust in some of the most critical components of Azure’s infrastructure. We expect our adoption of Rust to expand substantially over time. -- https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/blog/microsoft-azure-security-evolution-embrace-secure-multitenancy-confidential-compute-and-rust/ https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/blog/microsoft-azure-secur... > And, in alignment with the Secure Future Initiative, we are adopting safer programming languages, gradually moving functionality from C++ implementation to Rust. -- https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2024/11/19/windows-security-and-resiliency-protecting-your-business/ https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2024/11/19/windo... > We will accelerate and automate threat modeling, deploy CodeQL for code analysis to 100 percent of commercial products, and continue to expand Microsoft’s use of memory safe languages (such as C#, Python, Java, and Rust), building security in at the language level and eliminating whole classes of traditional software vulnerability. -- https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/security/blog/2023/11/02/announcing-microsoft-secure-future-initiative-to-advance-security-engineering/ https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/security/blog/2023/11/02/ann... So naturally, there are many people that besides AI KPIs, now have to match their SFI KPIs at Redmond, including Mark Russinovich. "Mark Russinovich, Microsoft Azure CTO tells Rust Nation UK 2025 why Azure is moving to Rust from C++" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmUprpjCWjM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmUprpjCWjM "Microsoft is Getting Rusty: A Review of Successes and Challenges - Mark Russinovich" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VgptLwP588 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VgptLwP588 Naturally aiming at 2030 for the amount of existing C++ code is crazy, and there are groups within Microsoft, especially DirectX and Windows that most likely won't let go of their toys.
- wavemode 10mo ago
  I can't tell what your point is at this point, I'm going to be honest. Everything you're linking to, I'm aware of. But you've still presented no evidence for the claim that Microsoft is "to replace all C/C++ code with Rust". If the title was "Microsoft to expand use of Rust" then OK. If it was "Microsoft to develop all new projects in Rust rather than C++", that would be an unsubstantiated claim when you're talking about the company as a whole rather than just Azure or some other segment, but it would at least be a bit closer to the truth than the current HN title.
  - pjmlp 10mo ago
    If you were aware, then you would know about the projects where they rewrote C++ projects into Rust, some mentioned on the Rust Nation UK talk.
    - wavemode 10mo ago
      Yep, I'm aware of that too.
      - pjmlp 10mo ago
        Doesn't seem like from the previous comment.
        anonysource 10mo ago
        Are you a sponsor of this guy after all? Getting paid to respond to all web comments regarding it? It's quite weird why you have been responding to all these posts with all the passion. With that said... I work at Microsoft on Windows OS, and the main point that was mentioned is indeed true: this is a claim of this engineer only and his team, and it just seems to be a plan totally misaligned with Windows OS vision of how things should be in 10 years. We won't get rid of C++ code anytime soon, the goal is to keep in hybrid state, not to get rid of things. This is unfeasible to do in mature products given all Windows OS processes to ship code.

pjmlp 10mo ago

Well, it is kind of in line with company official communication anyway, so this goal is currently a business target, > Decades of vulnerabilities have proven how difficult it is to prevent memory-corrupting bugs when using C/C++. While garbage-collected languages like C# or Java have proven more resilient to these issues, there are scenarios where they cannot be used. For such cases, we’re betting on Rust as the alternative to C/C++. Rust is a modern language designed to compete with the performance C/C++, but with memory safety and thread safety guarantees built into the language. While we are not able to rewrite everything in Rust overnight, we’ve already adopted Rust in some of the most critical components of Azure’s infrastructure. We expect our adoption of Rust to expand substantially over time. -- https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/blog/microsoft-azure-security-evolution-embrace-secure-multitenancy-confidential-compute-and-rust/ https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/blog/microsoft-azure-secur... > And, in alignment with the Secure Future Initiative, we are adopting safer programming languages, gradually moving functionality from C++ implementation to Rust. -- https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2024/11/19/windows-security-and-resiliency-protecting-your-business/ https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2024/11/19/windo... > We will accelerate and automate threat modeling, deploy CodeQL for code analysis to 100 percent of commercial products, and continue to expand Microsoft’s use of memory safe languages (such as C#, Python, Java, and Rust), building security in at the language level and eliminating whole classes of traditional software vulnerability. -- https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/security/blog/2023/11/02/announcing-microsoft-secure-future-initiative-to-advance-security-engineering/ https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/security/blog/2023/11/02/ann... So naturally, there are many people that besides AI KPIs, now have to match their SFI KPIs at Redmond, including Mark Russinovich. "Mark Russinovich, Microsoft Azure CTO tells Rust Nation UK 2025 why Azure is moving to Rust from C++" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmUprpjCWjM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmUprpjCWjM "Microsoft is Getting Rusty: A Review of Successes and Challenges - Mark Russinovich" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VgptLwP588 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VgptLwP588 Naturally aiming at 2030 for the amount of existing C++ code is crazy, and there are groups within Microsoft, especially DirectX and Windows that most likely won't let go of their toys.

wavemode 10mo ago
I can't tell what your point is at this point, I'm going to be honest. Everything you're linking to, I'm aware of. But you've still presented no evidence for the claim that Microsoft is "to replace all C/C++ code with Rust". If the title was "Microsoft to expand use of Rust" then OK. If it was "Microsoft to develop all new projects in Rust rather than C++", that would be an unsubstantiated claim when you're talking about the company as a whole rather than just Azure or some other segment, but it would at least be a bit closer to the truth than the current HN title.
- pjmlp 10mo ago
  If you were aware, then you would know about the projects where they rewrote C++ projects into Rust, some mentioned on the Rust Nation UK talk.
  - wavemode 10mo ago
    Yep, I'm aware of that too.
    - pjmlp 10mo ago
      Doesn't seem like from the previous comment.
      - anonysource 10mo ago
        Are you a sponsor of this guy after all? Getting paid to respond to all web comments regarding it? It's quite weird why you have been responding to all these posts with all the passion. With that said... I work at Microsoft on Windows OS, and the main point that was mentioned is indeed true: this is a claim of this engineer only and his team, and it just seems to be a plan totally misaligned with Windows OS vision of how things should be in 10 years. We won't get rid of C++ code anytime soon, the goal is to keep in hybrid state, not to get rid of things. This is unfeasible to do in mature products given all Windows OS processes to ship code.