4 ms·

I wonder if that's why this post, with more upvotes than a number of the other ones on the front page, has seemingly vanished from it.

embedding-shape 10mo ago
The number of comments is way higher than the number of upvotes, which usually gets submissions heavily downranked.
- lossolo 10mo ago
  Comments were moved from this higher upvoted thread https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46356182 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46356182 to this lower upvoted one.
dang 10mo ago
No, it's the other way around. This post is ranked higher on the frontpage than it would be if it weren't YC-related. (In fact, it probably wouldn't be on the frontpage at all in that case.) A core principle is that we moderate less, not more, when YC or a YC-funded startup is part of the story. Many past explanations: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=by%3Adang%20moderate%20%22less%2C%20not%20more%22&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...
- LexiMax 10mo ago
  I believe you when you say that nobody at YC put their thumb on the scale for this story in particular. However, YC very much has control over the algorithm used to rank stories on the Hacker News front page, and this algorithm very commonly downranks threads which are detected as being "controversial." If the algorithm "working as intended" consistently downranks stories that cast a bad light on YCombinator, the sorts of people y'all mingle with, or the tech industry in general...is that any better than putting your thumb on the scale? This is kind of why I feel obligated to use https://news.ycombinator.com/active https://news.ycombinator.com/active - after all, it's a very good indication of what Hacker News' algorithm and certain cohorts of its readership wants to hide from the casual viewer. And given the sorts of stories it tends to hide, it doesn't reflect well on this site or its users.
  - itishappy 10mo ago
    > If the algorithm "working as intended" consistently downranks stories that cast a bad light on YCombinator, the sorts of people y'all mingle with, or the tech industry in general...is that any better than putting your thumb on the scale? That's the exact opposite of what Dan stated, what this thread (and your link) demonstrate, and my own lived experience here.
    - ed 10mo ago
      that's fair but the post was on page 3 for a while. glad to see it restored to the front page. (the charitable explanation is that non-moderators can flag stories, as opposed to an official policy to protect YC companies)
      - edoceo 10mo ago
        Maybe the algorithm down-ranks posts that have lots of down-voted comments? Lots of light-grey text on this page.
    - LexiMax 10mo ago
      This thread required manual intervention to override the algorithm - intervention that it did not always have and not all stories benefit from. My argument is that the algorithm, as well as the various gameified engagement mechanisms on this site, are badly conceived and gives too much censure and veto power to ordinary users.
  - culi 10mo ago
    dang won't like me sharing this repo (sorry!) but hn-undocumented has a relevant section on this: https://github.com/minimaxir/hacker-news-undocumented?tab=readme-ov-file#perceived-favoritism-toward-yc-companies https://github.com/minimaxir/hacker-news-undocumented?tab=re... > Currently, there is no evidence that non-job submissions about a YC startup receive preferential treatment on the front page, or kill submissions critical of a YC startup. In fact, the moderators have stated that they explicitly avoid killing controversial YC posts when possible. And also: > Additionally, founders of YC companies see each other's usernames show up in orange, which — although not an explicit benefit — does allow fellow YC founders to immediately identify one another in discussions.
- ribosometronome 10mo ago
  When I made this comment, it was nowhere to be found on my front or second page, I had to navigate back through my browser history to find it.
  - dang 10mo ago
    Yes, that makes sense and I didn't mean to give the wrong impression! These things take time for us to correct.
- sneak 10mo ago
  It’s admirable that this is the policy. It’s sad that YC (as separate from to HN) doesn’t have a better policy about the types of investments they make. Mass surveillance systems should be a bright line, I think.

embedding-shape 10mo ago

The number of comments is way higher than the number of upvotes, which usually gets submissions heavily downranked.

lossolo 10mo ago
Comments were moved from this higher upvoted thread https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46356182 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46356182 to this lower upvoted one.

dang 10mo ago

No, it's the other way around. This post is ranked higher on the frontpage than it would be if it weren't YC-related. (In fact, it probably wouldn't be on the frontpage at all in that case.) A core principle is that we moderate less, not more, when YC or a YC-funded startup is part of the story. Many past explanations: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=by%3Adang%20moderate%20%22less%2C%20not%20more%22&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...

LexiMax 10mo ago
I believe you when you say that nobody at YC put their thumb on the scale for this story in particular. However, YC very much has control over the algorithm used to rank stories on the Hacker News front page, and this algorithm very commonly downranks threads which are detected as being "controversial." If the algorithm "working as intended" consistently downranks stories that cast a bad light on YCombinator, the sorts of people y'all mingle with, or the tech industry in general...is that any better than putting your thumb on the scale? This is kind of why I feel obligated to use https://news.ycombinator.com/active https://news.ycombinator.com/active - after all, it's a very good indication of what Hacker News' algorithm and certain cohorts of its readership wants to hide from the casual viewer. And given the sorts of stories it tends to hide, it doesn't reflect well on this site or its users.
- itishappy 10mo ago
  > If the algorithm "working as intended" consistently downranks stories that cast a bad light on YCombinator, the sorts of people y'all mingle with, or the tech industry in general...is that any better than putting your thumb on the scale? That's the exact opposite of what Dan stated, what this thread (and your link) demonstrate, and my own lived experience here.
  - ed 10mo ago
    that's fair but the post was on page 3 for a while. glad to see it restored to the front page. (the charitable explanation is that non-moderators can flag stories, as opposed to an official policy to protect YC companies)
    - edoceo 10mo ago
      Maybe the algorithm down-ranks posts that have lots of down-voted comments? Lots of light-grey text on this page.
  - LexiMax 10mo ago
    This thread required manual intervention to override the algorithm - intervention that it did not always have and not all stories benefit from. My argument is that the algorithm, as well as the various gameified engagement mechanisms on this site, are badly conceived and gives too much censure and veto power to ordinary users.
- culi 10mo ago
  dang won't like me sharing this repo (sorry!) but hn-undocumented has a relevant section on this: https://github.com/minimaxir/hacker-news-undocumented?tab=readme-ov-file#perceived-favoritism-toward-yc-companies https://github.com/minimaxir/hacker-news-undocumented?tab=re... > Currently, there is no evidence that non-job submissions about a YC startup receive preferential treatment on the front page, or kill submissions critical of a YC startup. In fact, the moderators have stated that they explicitly avoid killing controversial YC posts when possible. And also: > Additionally, founders of YC companies see each other's usernames show up in orange, which — although not an explicit benefit — does allow fellow YC founders to immediately identify one another in discussions.
ribosometronome 10mo ago
When I made this comment, it was nowhere to be found on my front or second page, I had to navigate back through my browser history to find it.
- dang 10mo ago
  Yes, that makes sense and I didn't mean to give the wrong impression! These things take time for us to correct.
sneak 10mo ago
It’s admirable that this is the policy. It’s sad that YC (as separate from to HN) doesn’t have a better policy about the types of investments they make. Mass surveillance systems should be a bright line, I think.