4 ms·

UK offered a rather simple pathway to immigrating to the UK for most Hong Kong residents [1]. But the choice between the stagnant UK and the booming mainland Ch

by nine_k 11mo ago

UK offered a rather simple pathway to immigrating to the UK for most Hong Kong residents [1]. But the choice between the stagnant UK and the booming mainland China was not obvious for everyone in late the 1990s, when China seemed to be democratizing more and more (despite the Tiananmen massacre), and growing richer by the day. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_National_(Overseas) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_National_(Overseas)

z2 11mo ago
It was a far cry from the full Portuguese citizenship offered for Macau, both in the latter's lack of conditions on acquisition (beyond being over age 15 at the handover), and in passing it on to descendants. https://www.quora.com/Why-did-Portugal-give-full-citizenship-to-Macau-residents-born-pre-1984-but-the-British-did-not-do-the-same-to-Hong-Kong-residents https://www.quora.com/Why-did-Portugal-give-full-citizenship...
btilly 11mo ago
They had multiple pathways. The top three destinations were Canada, the USA, and Australia. These locations offered a major benefit over the UK - they were on trade routes along which people from Hong Kong were already doing business. Canada was particularly affected. It absorbed the most immigrants, they were a larger share of the population, and this was a major increase in ethnic diversity. The resulting cultural clashes were sometimes an issue. Here is one that literally doubled car insurance rates in British Columbia around the time I left. Three cars, 2 in front with the left-hand car being driven by a Canadian, and the back car driven by a recent immigrant. The immigrant sees the opportunity to pass, swings out into oncoming traffic, and guns it. Leaving just a few inches of room. Normal Hong Kong driving. The Canadian has no idea that this is happening until OMG I'M ABOUT TO BE HIT! The Canadian then swerves right to avoid the emergency, and hits the car on the right. The immigrant drives off. Presumably wondering about these crazy Canadians who don't know how to drive. Everyone involved behaved reasonably for how they were used to driving. But the combination worked out very poorly...
- phainopepla2 11mo ago
  I would argue that the immigrant behaving reasonably "for how they were used to driving" is itself unreasonable. When you move to foreign country you have to adjust some things about your behavior. Driving behaviors and anything else with such a strong public safety component should be the most obvious thing to adjust for an adult, without needing to be told.
  - btilly 11mo ago
    Question, have you been an immigrant? Do you know any immigrants? When you immigrate into a country, all of a sudden all of your reflexes are wrong. Some are obviously wrong. Some are more subtle. It is overwhelming, and too much. While in retrospect it is easy to say that they should prioritize some things over others, in practice they tend to learn from experience after people respond badly, and those who are a little more used to the culture explain why they are wrong. And the experience of being told that they are wrong all of the time will make many hold on to some of their old habits extremely strongly. Don't criticize how slowly immigrants adapt to a new country, until you've been an immigrant in a foreign culture.
    - testrun 11mo ago
      I was an immigrant to a new country. I made an effort to learn the new rules. The immigrant adapts, not the country.
    - fogj094j0923j4 11mo ago
      As an immigrant myself, this criticism on driving is valid. What you said should apply to more social contextes like table, public manners.
    - sersi 11mo ago
      As an immigrant (I immigrated to Hong Kong)，I disagree when It comes to road safety. I believe that it's the responsibility of every driver to learn the differences when driving and until then practice safe defensive driving. I agree with you that it takes a while to adapt to new sociale mores and it's worth cutting immigrants some slack but that's different from driving a multi-ton heap of metal where safety is important. Sidenote: Of the different cities I've lived in Asia, HK drivers are some of the worst. Combination of aggressive driving with refusal to signal their attention (by using their turn signal) makes for very poor driving. Not everyone but a significant percentage.
cherryteastain 11mo ago
BN(O) is/was not a simple pathway to UK residence. As the wikipedia article says > BN(O)s are British nationals and Commonwealth citizens, but not British citizens. They are subject to immigration controls when entering the United Kingdom and do not have automatic right of abode there Things were different before the 1981 British Nationality Act but it's not too relevant for HK as the 1981 act is before the Sino British Declaration.

by nine_k 11mo ago

z2 11mo ago

It was a far cry from the full Portuguese citizenship offered for Macau, both in the latter's lack of conditions on acquisition (beyond being over age 15 at the handover), and in passing it on to descendants. https://www.quora.com/Why-did-Portugal-give-full-citizenship-to-Macau-residents-born-pre-1984-but-the-British-did-not-do-the-same-to-Hong-Kong-residents https://www.quora.com/Why-did-Portugal-give-full-citizenship...

btilly 11mo ago

They had multiple pathways. The top three destinations were Canada, the USA, and Australia. These locations offered a major benefit over the UK - they were on trade routes along which people from Hong Kong were already doing business. Canada was particularly affected. It absorbed the most immigrants, they were a larger share of the population, and this was a major increase in ethnic diversity. The resulting cultural clashes were sometimes an issue. Here is one that literally doubled car insurance rates in British Columbia around the time I left. Three cars, 2 in front with the left-hand car being driven by a Canadian, and the back car driven by a recent immigrant. The immigrant sees the opportunity to pass, swings out into oncoming traffic, and guns it. Leaving just a few inches of room. Normal Hong Kong driving. The Canadian has no idea that this is happening until OMG I'M ABOUT TO BE HIT! The Canadian then swerves right to avoid the emergency, and hits the car on the right. The immigrant drives off. Presumably wondering about these crazy Canadians who don't know how to drive. Everyone involved behaved reasonably for how they were used to driving. But the combination worked out very poorly...

phainopepla2 11mo ago
I would argue that the immigrant behaving reasonably "for how they were used to driving" is itself unreasonable. When you move to foreign country you have to adjust some things about your behavior. Driving behaviors and anything else with such a strong public safety component should be the most obvious thing to adjust for an adult, without needing to be told.
- btilly 11mo ago
  Question, have you been an immigrant? Do you know any immigrants? When you immigrate into a country, all of a sudden all of your reflexes are wrong. Some are obviously wrong. Some are more subtle. It is overwhelming, and too much. While in retrospect it is easy to say that they should prioritize some things over others, in practice they tend to learn from experience after people respond badly, and those who are a little more used to the culture explain why they are wrong. And the experience of being told that they are wrong all of the time will make many hold on to some of their old habits extremely strongly. Don't criticize how slowly immigrants adapt to a new country, until you've been an immigrant in a foreign culture.
  - testrun 11mo ago
    I was an immigrant to a new country. I made an effort to learn the new rules. The immigrant adapts, not the country.
  - fogj094j0923j4 11mo ago
    As an immigrant myself, this criticism on driving is valid. What you said should apply to more social contextes like table, public manners.
  - sersi 11mo ago
    As an immigrant (I immigrated to Hong Kong)，I disagree when It comes to road safety. I believe that it's the responsibility of every driver to learn the differences when driving and until then practice safe defensive driving. I agree with you that it takes a while to adapt to new sociale mores and it's worth cutting immigrants some slack but that's different from driving a multi-ton heap of metal where safety is important. Sidenote: Of the different cities I've lived in Asia, HK drivers are some of the worst. Combination of aggressive driving with refusal to signal their attention (by using their turn signal) makes for very poor driving. Not everyone but a significant percentage.

cherryteastain 11mo ago

BN(O) is/was not a simple pathway to UK residence. As the wikipedia article says > BN(O)s are British nationals and Commonwealth citizens, but not British citizens. They are subject to immigration controls when entering the United Kingdom and do not have automatic right of abode there Things were different before the 1981 British Nationality Act but it's not too relevant for HK as the 1981 act is before the Sino British Declaration.