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“ The cost merely to visit their parks is now too high for most Americans.” I always wonder why people say things like this. It’s as if we’re just regurgitatin

“ The cost merely to visit their parks is now too high for most Americans.” I always wonder why people say things like this. It’s as if we’re just regurgitating stuff that feels right. Humans and LLMs behave the same sometimes. Disneyworld alone gets 50 million visits a year. Magic Kingdom tickets are like $150. That’s approximately the average American’s monthly cell phone bill.

skywhopper 10mo ago
Those 50 million visits are the sum of daily visits across four parks, so it’s probably at most 30 million people. Even if they were all American (they aren’t), that’s like 9% of the population. The average cell phone bill you cite is for more than one person. I think it’s entirely fair to say that “most” Americans would find it too expensive to visit Disneyworld.
- mattmaroon 10mo ago
  Estimates put the percent of Americans who actually HAVE been to Disney north of 75%. So it would seem unfair to say most find it too expensive, most have done it. 30 million uniques at one Disney location (there are two in the country, I think the other one increases that to at least 40 million, or roughly 12% of the entire population) per year is pretty high so that stat isn’t unbelievable. I’m sure not everybody can afford to go there every year.
squigz 10mo ago
> Magic Kingdom tickets are like $150. What's the cost to travel there? To sleep? To eat? What's the actual experience like with that $150 ticket vs the options that are more expensive? Will you spend your entire day there waiting in line?
gkoberger 10mo ago
I don't think that's an incorrect statement to say it's too expensive for most Americans, even if there's still high traffic at the parks. Disney has become significantly less accessible for the average family of 4. Aside from ticket costs, there's almost nothing free in the parks anymore... you have to pay for lightning lane passes for all the cool rides, there's minimal live entertainment, etc. The demographics have significantly shifted. Only 1/3 visitors now come from households with children under 18, and millennials and gen z have started taking frequent trips (friend groups, couples, etc). So while they still get the same number of "attendance", the demographics have started to shift toward older, more affluent repeat visitors. Source: https://www.businessinsider.com/why-disney-parks-top-destinations-millennials-gen-z-2023-9 https://www.businessinsider.com/why-disney-parks-top-destina...
- mattmaroon 10mo ago
  The article you linked to indicates anything but how you’re portraying it. First it talks about young adult who goes there several times a year, sometimes with her parents, because it’s cheaper than traveling overseas. Then it says childless people have more discretionary income than parents (duh). The general population, also, has drifted toward older people without kids. 20 years ago nearly 50% of Americans had a child under 18. Now it’s under 40%. So this whole article just indicates that the population is shifting and Disney is adapting to it by making the parks more palatable to single adults. “In the last year, 93% of respondents in a consumer survey agreed that the cost of a Disney World vacation had become untenable for ‘average families’”. And yet the statistics indicate that more than 7% of families actually likely did go to a Disney park. (Presumably even more could afford it but just went somewhere else.) Which illustrates my point, this is a thing that feels correct but likely isn’t, and part of the reason it feels correct is that people regurgitate it factlessly.
DANmode 10mo ago
The “average American” doesn’t have $600 for an emergency. Also, your “cell phone bill” number is only good if you live within walking distance of Disney World, and pack your meals. and go alone.
- mattmaroon 10mo ago
  That’s also a drastic misstatement that illustrates what I’m talking about. A poll showed that the average persons specifically designated “emergency savings fund” is $600. Many people have lots of money but don’t specifically refer to some as an emergency fund. Also thanks to credit one does not need to have $600 to spend $600. That’s why we’ve got so many people with no savings.
  - DANmode 10mo ago
    You’re still missing the part of your comment where you convince us Americans have expendable cash. Not everyone is you. > Many people have lots of money is a gross exaggeration.
    - mattmaroon 10mo ago
      Somewhere between 70 and 90 percent of Americans have actually been to a Disney park. Does the fact that the vast majority of people have done something not prove that most people can afford it? I’m not sure why the burden of proof falls not on the original comment (most Americans can’t afford to go to Disney) but rather the person asking for proof, but here you have it anyway.
      - DANmode 10mo ago
        How many adults went to Disney in a wildly different economy does not prove the point you’re looking to. We probably won’t authoritatively prove anything, here - we’re just comparing our own world views and anecdata. Hopefully you’re okay with that: https://fb.com/reel/1540171337151246 https://fb.com/reel/1540171337151246

skywhopper 10mo ago

Those 50 million visits are the sum of daily visits across four parks, so it’s probably at most 30 million people. Even if they were all American (they aren’t), that’s like 9% of the population. The average cell phone bill you cite is for more than one person. I think it’s entirely fair to say that “most” Americans would find it too expensive to visit Disneyworld.

mattmaroon 10mo ago
Estimates put the percent of Americans who actually HAVE been to Disney north of 75%. So it would seem unfair to say most find it too expensive, most have done it. 30 million uniques at one Disney location (there are two in the country, I think the other one increases that to at least 40 million, or roughly 12% of the entire population) per year is pretty high so that stat isn’t unbelievable. I’m sure not everybody can afford to go there every year.

squigz 10mo ago

> Magic Kingdom tickets are like $150. What's the cost to travel there? To sleep? To eat? What's the actual experience like with that $150 ticket vs the options that are more expensive? Will you spend your entire day there waiting in line?

gkoberger 10mo ago

I don't think that's an incorrect statement to say it's too expensive for most Americans, even if there's still high traffic at the parks. Disney has become significantly less accessible for the average family of 4. Aside from ticket costs, there's almost nothing free in the parks anymore... you have to pay for lightning lane passes for all the cool rides, there's minimal live entertainment, etc. The demographics have significantly shifted. Only 1/3 visitors now come from households with children under 18, and millennials and gen z have started taking frequent trips (friend groups, couples, etc). So while they still get the same number of "attendance", the demographics have started to shift toward older, more affluent repeat visitors. Source: https://www.businessinsider.com/why-disney-parks-top-destinations-millennials-gen-z-2023-9 https://www.businessinsider.com/why-disney-parks-top-destina...

mattmaroon 10mo ago
The article you linked to indicates anything but how you’re portraying it. First it talks about young adult who goes there several times a year, sometimes with her parents, because it’s cheaper than traveling overseas. Then it says childless people have more discretionary income than parents (duh). The general population, also, has drifted toward older people without kids. 20 years ago nearly 50% of Americans had a child under 18. Now it’s under 40%. So this whole article just indicates that the population is shifting and Disney is adapting to it by making the parks more palatable to single adults. “In the last year, 93% of respondents in a consumer survey agreed that the cost of a Disney World vacation had become untenable for ‘average families’”. And yet the statistics indicate that more than 7% of families actually likely did go to a Disney park. (Presumably even more could afford it but just went somewhere else.) Which illustrates my point, this is a thing that feels correct but likely isn’t, and part of the reason it feels correct is that people regurgitate it factlessly.

DANmode 10mo ago

The “average American” doesn’t have $600 for an emergency. Also, your “cell phone bill” number is only good if you live within walking distance of Disney World, and pack your meals. and go alone.

mattmaroon 10mo ago
That’s also a drastic misstatement that illustrates what I’m talking about. A poll showed that the average persons specifically designated “emergency savings fund” is $600. Many people have lots of money but don’t specifically refer to some as an emergency fund. Also thanks to credit one does not need to have $600 to spend $600. That’s why we’ve got so many people with no savings.
- DANmode 10mo ago
  You’re still missing the part of your comment where you convince us Americans have expendable cash. Not everyone is you. > Many people have lots of money is a gross exaggeration.
  - mattmaroon 10mo ago
    Somewhere between 70 and 90 percent of Americans have actually been to a Disney park. Does the fact that the vast majority of people have done something not prove that most people can afford it? I’m not sure why the burden of proof falls not on the original comment (most Americans can’t afford to go to Disney) but rather the person asking for proof, but here you have it anyway.
    - DANmode 10mo ago
      How many adults went to Disney in a wildly different economy does not prove the point you’re looking to. We probably won’t authoritatively prove anything, here - we’re just comparing our own world views and anecdata. Hopefully you’re okay with that: https://fb.com/reel/1540171337151246 https://fb.com/reel/1540171337151246