I forget the exact podcast, as I think he did a few different interviews. Might have been this one? https://www.artofmanliness.com/people/fatherhood/podcast-10

I forget the exact podcast, as I think he did a few different interviews. Might have been this one? https://www.artofmanliness.com/people/fatherhood/podcast-1085-the-preparation-an-adventure-driven-skill-building-alternative-to-college-for-young-men/ https://www.artofmanliness.com/people/fatherhood/podcast-108... The book itself is called The Preparation.