3 ms·

This is outrageous and anti-customer. I’m completely sure the EU will be all over it any day now.

by blell 10mo ago

rany_ 10mo ago
Not if it's their own car industry. They'll only throw the book at foreign companies.
tpm 10mo ago
All of that will be accessible for third parties, because afaik it has to be in the EU. The cost is a different question, but I think that's not a surprise for BMW customers.
- xienze 10mo ago
  I don't see how "oh third parties can get a bit for it" is really an acceptable answer. Lightning cables are readily available but that wasn't consumer-friendly enough for the EU. I think the parent is right, let Ford try this and see how quickly the EU goes after them, because this is quite frankly very anti-consumer.
  - tpm 10mo ago
    That is a different legislation. Ford in the EU is a european car manufacturer with around 100 years of history, so yeah, I think the answer will be the same as for BMW. And sure, car makers have special status - they have just recently secured a huge win in reducing the scope of emmission-related fines, which will now be charged from 10g/km instead of 0g/km from 2035. But this too applies to every manufacturer.
    - xienze 10mo ago
      > That is a different legislation. I understand the legislation is different, but the anti-consumer sentiment is the same, but worse in this case since I have a feeling the screw bit won't be nearly as available and cheap as Lightning cables are. > Ford in the EU is a european car manufacturer An American company with factories in the EU. I don't think it's the same as a company headquartered in the EU.
      - tpm 10mo ago
        No, anti-consumer sentiment is "you have to buy a different charger for each device and it becomes obsolete with the device". Factories in the EU means workers employed and taxes paid in the EU. It means a lot here.
        xienze 10mo ago
        > No, anti-consumer sentiment is "you have to buy a different charger for each device and it becomes obsolete with the device". But you don't? The other end of any Lightning connector is USB-A or USB-C. Works just fine anywhere. > Factories in the EU means workers employed and taxes paid in the EU. It means a lot here. So I guess going back to the original parent's point: if your company is producing stuff in Europe, proprietary screws are just fine from a consumer point of view. Which kind of confirms everyone's suspicions about EU regulations... they're just foreign company shakedowns under the guise of "protecting the consumer."
        tpm 10mo ago
        > Which kind of confirms everyone's suspicions about EU regulations... they're just foreign company shakedowns under the guise of "protecting the consumer." Zero evidence was provided to support this, but I guess facts don't matter anymore.
        xienze 10mo ago
        > Zero evidence was provided to support this, but I guess facts don't matter anymore. What do you think the whole thread was about? Apple makes a proprietary connector: anti-consumer behavior according to the EU. Use a standard connector or get fined to oblivion. BMW makes a proprietary, patented _screw_: perfectly acceptable according to the EU. Are you being intentionally obtuse here or what? The proof is that you have an instance of the same behavior in two different domains, with the main difference being one company is American and one is European.
        10mo ago
Tarsul 10mo ago
No. No, you don't understand. This is actually pro-consumer because if the patent is enforced, other car-manufacturers cannot pull this stunt. So, thanks BMW, good job for keeping anti-competetive practices at bay by patenting them.

This is outrageous and anti-customer. I’m completely sure the EU will be all over it any day now.

by blell 10mo ago

This is outrageous and anti-customer. I’m completely sure the EU will be all over it any day now.

rany_ 10mo ago

Not if it's their own car industry. They'll only throw the book at foreign companies.

tpm 10mo ago

All of that will be accessible for third parties, because afaik it has to be in the EU. The cost is a different question, but I think that's not a surprise for BMW customers.

xienze 10mo ago
I don't see how "oh third parties can get a bit for it" is really an acceptable answer. Lightning cables are readily available but that wasn't consumer-friendly enough for the EU. I think the parent is right, let Ford try this and see how quickly the EU goes after them, because this is quite frankly very anti-consumer.
- tpm 10mo ago
  That is a different legislation. Ford in the EU is a european car manufacturer with around 100 years of history, so yeah, I think the answer will be the same as for BMW. And sure, car makers have special status - they have just recently secured a huge win in reducing the scope of emmission-related fines, which will now be charged from 10g/km instead of 0g/km from 2035. But this too applies to every manufacturer.
  - xienze 10mo ago
    > That is a different legislation. I understand the legislation is different, but the anti-consumer sentiment is the same, but worse in this case since I have a feeling the screw bit won't be nearly as available and cheap as Lightning cables are. > Ford in the EU is a european car manufacturer An American company with factories in the EU. I don't think it's the same as a company headquartered in the EU.
    - tpm 10mo ago
      No, anti-consumer sentiment is "you have to buy a different charger for each device and it becomes obsolete with the device". Factories in the EU means workers employed and taxes paid in the EU. It means a lot here.
      - xienze 10mo ago
        > No, anti-consumer sentiment is "you have to buy a different charger for each device and it becomes obsolete with the device". But you don't? The other end of any Lightning connector is USB-A or USB-C. Works just fine anywhere. > Factories in the EU means workers employed and taxes paid in the EU. It means a lot here. So I guess going back to the original parent's point: if your company is producing stuff in Europe, proprietary screws are just fine from a consumer point of view. Which kind of confirms everyone's suspicions about EU regulations... they're just foreign company shakedowns under the guise of "protecting the consumer."
        tpm 10mo ago
        > Which kind of confirms everyone's suspicions about EU regulations... they're just foreign company shakedowns under the guise of "protecting the consumer." Zero evidence was provided to support this, but I guess facts don't matter anymore.
        xienze 10mo ago
        > Zero evidence was provided to support this, but I guess facts don't matter anymore. What do you think the whole thread was about? Apple makes a proprietary connector: anti-consumer behavior according to the EU. Use a standard connector or get fined to oblivion. BMW makes a proprietary, patented _screw_: perfectly acceptable according to the EU. Are you being intentionally obtuse here or what? The proof is that you have an instance of the same behavior in two different domains, with the main difference being one company is American and one is European.
        10mo ago

Tarsul 10mo ago

No. No, you don't understand. This is actually pro-consumer because if the patent is enforced, other car-manufacturers cannot pull this stunt. So, thanks BMW, good job for keeping anti-competetive practices at bay by patenting them.