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I always felt that gift cards are the underbelly of the economy. I don’t think that’s an accident, these things are great ways to move money and pay casual labo

by Spooky23 10mo ago

I always felt that gift cards are the underbelly of the economy. I don’t think that’s an accident, these things are great ways to move money and pay casual labor without the red flags that cash throws up these days.

ashdksnndck 10mo ago
One time I got a car detailed, and when I was paying at the end, I noticed that the employee was writing out a receipt and marking that I had paid with a gift card. I don’t remember if I was paying with cash or a credit card, but either way I figure some sort of tax evasion and/or money laundering scheme was happening.
- Spooky23 10mo ago
  Probably skimming the till. They return a previous customer’s transaction a refund to gift card, then take your cash and pocket it. There’s a ton of grifts like that.
andy99 10mo ago
What red flags does cash throw up that are circumvented by gift cards?
- toomuchtodo 10mo ago
  Suspicious Activity Reports (SARs) and Currency Transaction Reports (CTRs). I’ve also noticed (perhaps this is not recent though) the max cash limit at some ATMs reduced from $500 to $400. If you purchase $1000 or more in USPS money orders, the rep will take a copy of your government identification. https://www.occ.treas.gov/topics/supervision-and-examination/bank-operations/financial-crime/suspicious-activity-reports/index-suspicious-activity-reports.html https://www.occ.treas.gov/topics/supervision-and-examination... https://www.fincen.gov/system/files/shared/CTRPamphlet.pdf https://www.fincen.gov/system/files/shared/CTRPamphlet.pdf
  - andy99 10mo ago
    How would gift cards circumvent this? Dollar for dollar I can only imagine a transaction getting more attention if done in gift cards, certainly one over 10k probably isn’t even possible
    - gruez 10mo ago
      It's not cash so they don't have to report it
    - Spooky23 10mo ago
      You buy gift cards with other purchases and pay people under the table. The gift card is cash-like for stores like Home Depot or Walmart. You can also do stuff like get paid with someone else’s Cash App (like grandma’s) and then buy gift cards with it. If you hire “independent contractors” for casual labor or construction, many of them do that. The gift card transaction is just another CVS/Mobil purchase. It’s not just tax evasion, sometimes they are avoiding child support or garnishments. Other times folks are just unbanked for some reason. You get blacklisted from banking you do something stupid.
Fnoord 10mo ago
This book [1] from 2011 by Kevin Poulsen about the carder Max Butler (alias Iceman). Runners would use his copied CCs (which he acquired via cracking into conputers) to buy gift cards in physical stores. Nowadays we got CVV (CVC). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingpin_(book) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingpin_(book)

ashdksnndck 10mo ago

One time I got a car detailed, and when I was paying at the end, I noticed that the employee was writing out a receipt and marking that I had paid with a gift card. I don’t remember if I was paying with cash or a credit card, but either way I figure some sort of tax evasion and/or money laundering scheme was happening.

Spooky23 10mo ago
Probably skimming the till. They return a previous customer’s transaction a refund to gift card, then take your cash and pocket it. There’s a ton of grifts like that.

andy99 10mo ago

What red flags does cash throw up that are circumvented by gift cards?

toomuchtodo 10mo ago
Suspicious Activity Reports (SARs) and Currency Transaction Reports (CTRs). I’ve also noticed (perhaps this is not recent though) the max cash limit at some ATMs reduced from $500 to $400. If you purchase $1000 or more in USPS money orders, the rep will take a copy of your government identification. https://www.occ.treas.gov/topics/supervision-and-examination/bank-operations/financial-crime/suspicious-activity-reports/index-suspicious-activity-reports.html https://www.occ.treas.gov/topics/supervision-and-examination... https://www.fincen.gov/system/files/shared/CTRPamphlet.pdf https://www.fincen.gov/system/files/shared/CTRPamphlet.pdf
- andy99 10mo ago
  How would gift cards circumvent this? Dollar for dollar I can only imagine a transaction getting more attention if done in gift cards, certainly one over 10k probably isn’t even possible
  - gruez 10mo ago
    It's not cash so they don't have to report it
  - Spooky23 10mo ago
    You buy gift cards with other purchases and pay people under the table. The gift card is cash-like for stores like Home Depot or Walmart. You can also do stuff like get paid with someone else’s Cash App (like grandma’s) and then buy gift cards with it. If you hire “independent contractors” for casual labor or construction, many of them do that. The gift card transaction is just another CVS/Mobil purchase. It’s not just tax evasion, sometimes they are avoiding child support or garnishments. Other times folks are just unbanked for some reason. You get blacklisted from banking you do something stupid.

Fnoord 10mo ago

This book [1] from 2011 by Kevin Poulsen about the carder Max Butler (alias Iceman). Runners would use his copied CCs (which he acquired via cracking into conputers) to buy gift cards in physical stores. Nowadays we got CVV (CVC). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingpin_(book) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingpin_(book)