4 ms·

Had the same exact thought. That DHH was included and Sandy was not really surprised me.

by rpdillon 10mo ago

jrochkind1 10mo ago
I think dhh's quote just isn't very good -- of course someone who has so much identity invested in the ecosystem is going to say "I looked around and still nothing is better than ruby!" Well maybe not even of course, not even every "BDL" is as cringingly self-promotional as dhh, some have a bit of humility. i agree it's not a great look. Hopefully the website will keep getting regularly updated and tweaked (software, is a living organism!), instead of being frozen in amber for a decade like the last version!
- Zambyte 10mo ago
  [flagged]
  - hit8run 10mo ago
    [flagged]
  - periodjet 10mo ago
    [flagged]
tovej 10mo ago
[flagged]
- dijit 10mo ago
  Being critical of MENA migration is not hateful speech. Hateful speech is stating: you are from a MENA region therefore you are x negative trait. Being critical of migration is just being critical of migration, which is allowed. His defence ("suicidal empathy" etc;) comes from the situation in the UK where people are being arrested en-masse for "hate speech" for referencing acts of terror[0]. You can dislike what he says, but hateful carries a more specific meaning (to me, at least). [0]: https://nypost.com/2025/08/19/world-news/uk-free-speech-struggle-30-arrests-a-day-censorship/ https://nypost.com/2025/08/19/world-news/uk-free-speech-stru...
  - tovej 10mo ago
    He did imply that brown people are rapists, and that transpeople bad. So he also fits your definition of hateful. In "As I remember London" he also says that crime increases when there are more brown people.
    - dijit 10mo ago
      I think he backed his citations, and just because migration from MENA regions (a historically entirely different culture) are “brown people” doesn’t make it invalid. Mexicans are also brown people and so are Spanish people in some definitions. Yet somehow he’s not talking about them. If you look closely he’s criticising the kids gloves that the authorities are handling the newcomers that leads to a worsening narrative for everyone- lets not forget that there are victims in both camps here. We should be able to criticise migration without everyone saying it’s racism otherwise you loosen the definition of racism so much that everybody becomes a “racist” eventually and it stops having a sting
      - tovej 10mo ago
        He did not back those up. He provided anecdata about a single "Pakistani rape gang" story, but the actual statistics say that child sex crime "gangs" are predominantly white [1]. You're allowed to criticize immigration, but if you only ever cherry-pick anecdotes about immigrants of a certain color and creed, and also refuse to correct your statement after you're made aware of the actual facts, you're most likely a racist. DHH is also not criticizing immigration per se, because he's including non-white native brits in his category of undesirable Londoners. You can't deny that that's racism. These are people who grew up as part of the British culture, they just don't have the right skin tone. [1] https://web.archive.org/web/20251003224438/https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/944206/Group-based_CSE_Paper.pdf https://web.archive.org/web/20251003224438/https://assets.pu...
        dijit 10mo ago
        I appreciate the thoughtful response and the commitment to facts. Racism has no place in these discussions. Let’s examine the points with nuance, drawing from the cited report and context. On the Home Office Report’s Statistics The 2020 paper states that group-based child sexual exploitation (CSE) offenders are “most commonly White”.[0] However, it highlights major data limitations. Ethnicity was often unrecorded or incomplete. Police forces supplied partial details only. The report notes that “the academic literature highlights significant limitations to what can be said about links between ethnicity and this form of offending”. It also cautions against conclusions due to “data quality problems, the way the samples were selected in studies, and the potential for bias”. A 2025 audit by Baroness Casey confirmed this. Ethnicity went unrecorded for two-thirds of suspects. Better data collection is now mandatory. While the report leans towards White predominance overall, it acknowledges high-profile cases “have mainly involved men of Pakistani ethnicity”.(also in[0]) It does not rule out over-representation in specific subtypes. This invites careful interpretation rather than dismissal. On Cherry-Picking Anecdotes and Corrections: Selective stories can mislead. Yet DHH often cites aggregated data from European reports, such as Denmark’s figures on higher crime rates among certain immigrant groups. He praises selective immigration from compatible cultures and commends Denmark’s integration policies. This points to policy focus, not inherent bias. If presented with the report’s full nuances and unmoved, that warrants critique. Given its caveats and recent calls for improved data, the debate remains open. On Non-White Native Brits and Racism; Implying Britishness ties to skin tone is wrong. DHH’s remark about “Brits being a minority in their own capital” refers to the “White British” census category, at 37% in London per the 2021 census. This tracks ethnic shifts officially. Non-White British citizens, many native-born and fully integrated, are undeniably British. If his phrasing suggests otherwise, it needs clarification. His posts emphasise rapid changes from mass immigration, not rejection of integrated individuals. Many non-White Brits voice similar concerns on resources and cohesion, without racism. Criticising policies can be valid if evidence-based and non-dehumanising. Targeting one group without balance risks bias. DHH’s stance seems data-driven on integration, but scrutiny is fair. Thanks for the source though. [0]: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/944206/Group-based_CSE_Paper.pdf https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/...
- blitz_skull 10mo ago
  Not sure if you got the memo but we aren’t cancelling people for their political views anymore. That’s not really a thing anymore. Just because you don’t agree with his views doesn’t make it “not a good look”. In fact, the ability to think outside of his cultural bubble and go against the grain is something that makes him great.
  - tovej 10mo ago
    I mean, you're allowed to think an ethnonationalist has a consistent and reasonable worldview. That's absolutely ridiculous but you're free to think it. Nobody's cancelling anyone. But having DHH as a face of your programming language, a language that's supposed to have a "warm community", doesn't really make any sense, and it will obviously drive people away.
ecshafer 10mo ago
DHH is the lead developer of the most popular ruby web framework, Sandy is the author of a mildly popular book. Not knocking her work, but DHH is magnitudes more influential.

Had the same exact thought. That DHH was included and Sandy was not really surprised me.

I think dhh's quote just isn't very good -- of course someone who has so much identity invested in the ecosystem is going to say "I looked around and still nothing is better than ruby!" Well maybe not even of course, not even every "BDL" is as cringingly self-promotional as dhh, some have a bit of humility. i agree it's not a great look. Hopefully the website will keep getting regularly updated and tweaked (software, is a living organism!), instead of being frozen in amber for a decade like the last version!

Zambyte 10mo ago
[flagged]
- hit8run 10mo ago
  [flagged]
- periodjet 10mo ago
  [flagged]

tovej 10mo ago

[flagged]

dijit 10mo ago
Being critical of MENA migration is not hateful speech. Hateful speech is stating: you are from a MENA region therefore you are x negative trait. Being critical of migration is just being critical of migration, which is allowed. His defence ("suicidal empathy" etc;) comes from the situation in the UK where people are being arrested en-masse for "hate speech" for referencing acts of terror[0]. You can dislike what he says, but hateful carries a more specific meaning (to me, at least). [0]: https://nypost.com/2025/08/19/world-news/uk-free-speech-struggle-30-arrests-a-day-censorship/ https://nypost.com/2025/08/19/world-news/uk-free-speech-stru...
- tovej 10mo ago
  He did imply that brown people are rapists, and that transpeople bad. So he also fits your definition of hateful. In "As I remember London" he also says that crime increases when there are more brown people.
  - dijit 10mo ago
    I think he backed his citations, and just because migration from MENA regions (a historically entirely different culture) are “brown people” doesn’t make it invalid. Mexicans are also brown people and so are Spanish people in some definitions. Yet somehow he’s not talking about them. If you look closely he’s criticising the kids gloves that the authorities are handling the newcomers that leads to a worsening narrative for everyone- lets not forget that there are victims in both camps here. We should be able to criticise migration without everyone saying it’s racism otherwise you loosen the definition of racism so much that everybody becomes a “racist” eventually and it stops having a sting
    - tovej 10mo ago
      He did not back those up. He provided anecdata about a single "Pakistani rape gang" story, but the actual statistics say that child sex crime "gangs" are predominantly white [1]. You're allowed to criticize immigration, but if you only ever cherry-pick anecdotes about immigrants of a certain color and creed, and also refuse to correct your statement after you're made aware of the actual facts, you're most likely a racist. DHH is also not criticizing immigration per se, because he's including non-white native brits in his category of undesirable Londoners. You can't deny that that's racism. These are people who grew up as part of the British culture, they just don't have the right skin tone. [1] https://web.archive.org/web/20251003224438/https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/944206/Group-based_CSE_Paper.pdf https://web.archive.org/web/20251003224438/https://assets.pu...
      - dijit 10mo ago
        I appreciate the thoughtful response and the commitment to facts. Racism has no place in these discussions. Let’s examine the points with nuance, drawing from the cited report and context. On the Home Office Report’s Statistics The 2020 paper states that group-based child sexual exploitation (CSE) offenders are “most commonly White”.[0] However, it highlights major data limitations. Ethnicity was often unrecorded or incomplete. Police forces supplied partial details only. The report notes that “the academic literature highlights significant limitations to what can be said about links between ethnicity and this form of offending”. It also cautions against conclusions due to “data quality problems, the way the samples were selected in studies, and the potential for bias”. A 2025 audit by Baroness Casey confirmed this. Ethnicity went unrecorded for two-thirds of suspects. Better data collection is now mandatory. While the report leans towards White predominance overall, it acknowledges high-profile cases “have mainly involved men of Pakistani ethnicity”.(also in[0]) It does not rule out over-representation in specific subtypes. This invites careful interpretation rather than dismissal. On Cherry-Picking Anecdotes and Corrections: Selective stories can mislead. Yet DHH often cites aggregated data from European reports, such as Denmark’s figures on higher crime rates among certain immigrant groups. He praises selective immigration from compatible cultures and commends Denmark’s integration policies. This points to policy focus, not inherent bias. If presented with the report’s full nuances and unmoved, that warrants critique. Given its caveats and recent calls for improved data, the debate remains open. On Non-White Native Brits and Racism; Implying Britishness ties to skin tone is wrong. DHH’s remark about “Brits being a minority in their own capital” refers to the “White British” census category, at 37% in London per the 2021 census. This tracks ethnic shifts officially. Non-White British citizens, many native-born and fully integrated, are undeniably British. If his phrasing suggests otherwise, it needs clarification. His posts emphasise rapid changes from mass immigration, not rejection of integrated individuals. Many non-White Brits voice similar concerns on resources and cohesion, without racism. Criticising policies can be valid if evidence-based and non-dehumanising. Targeting one group without balance risks bias. DHH’s stance seems data-driven on integration, but scrutiny is fair. Thanks for the source though. [0]: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/944206/Group-based_CSE_Paper.pdf https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/...
blitz_skull 10mo ago
Not sure if you got the memo but we aren’t cancelling people for their political views anymore. That’s not really a thing anymore. Just because you don’t agree with his views doesn’t make it “not a good look”. In fact, the ability to think outside of his cultural bubble and go against the grain is something that makes him great.
- tovej 10mo ago
  I mean, you're allowed to think an ethnonationalist has a consistent and reasonable worldview. That's absolutely ridiculous but you're free to think it. Nobody's cancelling anyone. But having DHH as a face of your programming language, a language that's supposed to have a "warm community", doesn't really make any sense, and it will obviously drive people away.

ecshafer 10mo ago

DHH is the lead developer of the most popular ruby web framework, Sandy is the author of a mildly popular book. Not knocking her work, but DHH is magnitudes more influential.