4 ms·

> The site’s only input fields accept license plate numbers (which are hashed client-side before transmission and cannot be harvested) License plates are trivi

> The site’s only input fields accept license plate numbers (which are hashed client-side before transmission and cannot be harvested) License plates are trivially short, hashing them accomplishes no additional level of privacy if the hashes could be bruted in seconds on an antique GPU.

hibf 10mo ago
Technically true. Flock could present an unfounded argument that I might be brute-forcing my own security and privacy measures. I think it'd sound pretty dumb.
- whatshisface 10mo ago
  If the security depends on the person it's supposed to be secure against not trying to break it...
- VladVladikoff 10mo ago
  What about doing it all client side? Or perhaps let the user type one or two characters then fetch that from the server for all matches and do the remaining matching client side. There are ways you could truly isolate yourself from the PII.
TheDong 10mo ago
Being able to say "Our server never sees user-input license plate numbers", even though from a technical perspective the hash is just as identifiable, does have value. Even though it offers no additional privacy, it does let non-technically-minded users and so on feel safer, and that's valuable.
- 63stack 10mo ago
  The value is being able to mislead your users
  - EdwardDiego 10mo ago
    Sure, Jan.
- rockskon 10mo ago
  That "value" here lets them mislead policymakers.
croes 10mo ago
They have indexed publicly available data. The privacy was long gone before you even entered a license plate number. Or do you think other actors didn’t have the same data but without a frontend to show it to you?
- VladVladikoff 10mo ago
  Entering your licence plate into this site gives the operator your geodata/ip address tied back to your licence plate.
  - croes 10mo ago
    Unless you use a VPN to access the site. Flock has your real location on camera.
mceachen 10mo ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salt_(cryptography) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salt_(cryptography) (Or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pepper_(cryptography) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pepper_(cryptography) off you want to be fancy)
- VladVladikoff 10mo ago
  Well aware of these, however that would not benefit in this case. Their main protection is against pre computed lookup tables. But since the operator needs to be able to lookup the license plate within their own database, then they would not be using either of these. If the operator really wanted to do this in a safe way for the user then the whole database should exist client side.
creatonez 10mo ago
This might be referring to k-anonymity where you truncate the hash so that it matches about 1000 hashes, then the client matches against that list. Which makes it so the operator can't really narrow down what exact license plates correspond to which searches.
LoganDark 10mo ago
Some hashing algorithms are tunable into being very expensive and difficult to brute-force even for very short inputs, but I virtually guarantee that whoever designed this system most likely would not even be aware those existed.

hibf 10mo ago

Technically true. Flock could present an unfounded argument that I might be brute-forcing my own security and privacy measures. I think it'd sound pretty dumb.

whatshisface 10mo ago
If the security depends on the person it's supposed to be secure against not trying to break it...
VladVladikoff 10mo ago
What about doing it all client side? Or perhaps let the user type one or two characters then fetch that from the server for all matches and do the remaining matching client side. There are ways you could truly isolate yourself from the PII.

TheDong 10mo ago

Being able to say "Our server never sees user-input license plate numbers", even though from a technical perspective the hash is just as identifiable, does have value. Even though it offers no additional privacy, it does let non-technically-minded users and so on feel safer, and that's valuable.

63stack 10mo ago
The value is being able to mislead your users
- EdwardDiego 10mo ago
  Sure, Jan.
rockskon 10mo ago
That "value" here lets them mislead policymakers.

croes 10mo ago

They have indexed publicly available data. The privacy was long gone before you even entered a license plate number. Or do you think other actors didn’t have the same data but without a frontend to show it to you?

VladVladikoff 10mo ago
Entering your licence plate into this site gives the operator your geodata/ip address tied back to your licence plate.
- croes 10mo ago
  Unless you use a VPN to access the site. Flock has your real location on camera.

mceachen 10mo ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salt_(cryptography) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salt_(cryptography) (Or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pepper_(cryptography) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pepper_(cryptography) off you want to be fancy)

VladVladikoff 10mo ago
Well aware of these, however that would not benefit in this case. Their main protection is against pre computed lookup tables. But since the operator needs to be able to lookup the license plate within their own database, then they would not be using either of these. If the operator really wanted to do this in a safe way for the user then the whole database should exist client side.

creatonez 10mo ago

This might be referring to k-anonymity where you truncate the hash so that it matches about 1000 hashes, then the client matches against that list. Which makes it so the operator can't really narrow down what exact license plates correspond to which searches.

LoganDark 10mo ago

Some hashing algorithms are tunable into being very expensive and difficult to brute-force even for very short inputs, but I virtually guarantee that whoever designed this system most likely would not even be aware those existed.