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This is a Y Combinator company? https://www.ycombinator.com/companies/flock-safety https://www.ycombinator.com/companies/flock-safety dang/tomhow, does Y Combi

This is a Y Combinator company? https://www.ycombinator.com/companies/flock-safety https://www.ycombinator.com/companies/flock-safety dang/tomhow, does Y Combinator have a code of ethics that comes into play when one of your funding recipients does something unethical and/or illegal like this?

edm0nd 11mo ago
yeah their code of ethics is to laugh all the way to the bank and be untouchable. nothing will happen to them from YC.
avaer 11mo ago
One long-standing code is that they moderate YC companies less on HN, allowing criticisms like yours to stand: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34320816 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34320816 To HN's credit I haven't seen this rule violated. For example I wouldn't have known it was a YC company if not for your comment.
- TimorousBestie 11mo ago
  > One long-standing code is that they moderate YC companies less on HN, allowing criticisms like yours to stand: Well, that’s what dang says he does. There’s no transparency and no publicly available data that would demonstrate adherence to the rule. > To HN's credit I haven't seen this rule violated. I don’t think you’d observe anything different if it were violated.
  - squigz 11mo ago
    > I don’t think you’d observe anything different if it were violated. If the mods were in the practice of moderating like this, yes, it would almost certainly be noticed by someone whose post/comment got deleted. HN, like every other community on the Internet, relies on trust between the users and mods. If you don't trust them, you can always leave.
    - throwaway27285 11mo ago
      > it would almost certainly be noticed by someone whose post/comment got deleted Would it? HN has all sorts of sneaky punishments to keep people from noticing what's going on. Shadow bans, limiting how many comments you can post per day, sometimes outright refusing to serve you pages with a "Sorry." error, and even flagging isn't visible to the person whose comment got flagged. HN doesn't notify you in any way for any of this. How often do you check your comments while logged out? That includes old comments, of course, which need to be rechecked on a periodic basis. Archives provide some limitation to how much manipulation can happen, but flagging is a thing, can be abused by anyone with enough karma, and provides a lot of plausible deniability for dang should he opt for a stealthier approach to moderation. Even this account is shadowbanned - and this comment automatically flagged - because I had the audacity to create an account with a VPN, in a world where VPNs are a requirement for unrestricted Internet access for a growing number of people living in "democratic" countries. The only way I know this is through testing, of course, because HN gives no indication that your account will be shadowbanned on creation.
      - squigz 11mo ago
        > HN has all sorts of sneaky punishments to keep people from noticing what's going on Another way of putting this is that HN has very standard mechanisms in place to combat spam and other sources of low-signal comments. > Shadow bans, limiting how many comments you can post per day Like these. > Sometimes outright refusing to serve you pages with a "Sorry." error, This just sounds like downtime/server problems. Every site has them, and even the most law-abiding posters on HN will see that sometimes. > even flagging isn't visible to the person whose comment got flagged. Yes it is? > HN doesn't notify you in any way for any of this. This is by design; HN doesn't offer notifications of anything on its own. Besides, most platforms don't usually notify people of these things by default either? > Even this account is shadowbanned - and this comment automatically flagged - because I had the audacity to create an account with a VPN, in a world where VPNs are a requirement for unrestricted Internet access for a growing number of people living in "democratic" countries. The only way I know this is through testing, of course, because HN gives no indication that your account will be shadowbanned on creation. I don't think you need to be so indignant. VPNs are also abused. All of these mechanisms are tradeoffs for making HN one of the best sites I've ever been on for productive, intelligent discussion; and the mods are well aware of this and manage to balance it well. For example, you were still able to register, and you and I are still able to exchange comments. If you contribute to discussions (on an account you don't just throwaway) for a little while, the limitations go away.
  - duckmysick 11mo ago
    > no publicly available data that would demonstrate adherence to the rule. What kind of data would satisfy you? I imagine any data coming directly from YC would be untrustworthy and third-party data would be incomplete (say, it wouldn't catch content removed before it's published). Is there a similar data set for other private platforms?
    - TimorousBestie 11mo ago
      A public moderation log would satisfy me just fine, and is common practice on other forums.
- deleted 11mo ago
  [deleted]
sergiotapia 11mo ago
So these are the scumbags putting cameras in front of schools and sending tickets to people on Sundays. Thank you for making peoples lives materially WORSE.
- sneak 11mo ago
  Speeding tickets are not related in any way to why Flock (YC S17)* is bad. * how I will now always refer to them
- tomjakubowski 11mo ago
  Cameras at schools, I can see how that could be concerning. But what's wrong with ticketing drivers on Sundays?
  - CamperBob2 11mo ago
    Nothing, I guess, but don't try to tell us it's about "safety" when school-zone speed limits are enforced on Sundays when school is out. That said, I don't think Flock has anything to do with speed cameras in school zones or anywhere else.
    - FireBeyond 11mo ago
      Hah, about a decade I had a cop try to pull that one on me, pulled over for speeding in a school zone on a Saturday morning. "Even if you can't see kids at a school you should assume they're around". Judge had about as much patience for that argument as I did. Dismissed.
mmooss 11mo ago
Are dang and tomhow involved at all in YC member ethics? I expect they know about ethical behavior on HN.
venturecruelty 11mo ago
First time?
nrhrjrjrjtntbt 11mo ago
VC system with multiple investors means YC can't tell their company what to do. No mote than you can tell Google what to do because you have $100M in shares.
- FireBeyond 11mo ago
  There are economies of scale. But if one of your investors owns even a single digit percentage of your company and calls you to comment on direction or strategy, if you're wise, you pick up the phone.
nerdsniper 11mo ago
To some extent, YCombinator partners are on the record[0] supporting the idea of their startups doing illegal things. Generally they'll frame this as challenging outdated regulations, but they acknowledge that the founders whose strategies they fully support sometimes come into office hours and discuss how they're worried that the strategy puts them at risk of going to jail. 0: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hm-ZIiwiN1o&t=8m46s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hm-ZIiwiN1o&t=8m46s
s5300 11mo ago
[dead]
wahnfrieden 11mo ago
[flagged]
deleted 11mo ago
[deleted]

edm0nd 11mo ago

yeah their code of ethics is to laugh all the way to the bank and be untouchable. nothing will happen to them from YC.

avaer 11mo ago

One long-standing code is that they moderate YC companies less on HN, allowing criticisms like yours to stand: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34320816 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34320816 To HN's credit I haven't seen this rule violated. For example I wouldn't have known it was a YC company if not for your comment.

TimorousBestie 11mo ago
> One long-standing code is that they moderate YC companies less on HN, allowing criticisms like yours to stand: Well, that’s what dang says he does. There’s no transparency and no publicly available data that would demonstrate adherence to the rule. > To HN's credit I haven't seen this rule violated. I don’t think you’d observe anything different if it were violated.
- squigz 11mo ago
  > I don’t think you’d observe anything different if it were violated. If the mods were in the practice of moderating like this, yes, it would almost certainly be noticed by someone whose post/comment got deleted. HN, like every other community on the Internet, relies on trust between the users and mods. If you don't trust them, you can always leave.
  - throwaway27285 11mo ago
    > it would almost certainly be noticed by someone whose post/comment got deleted Would it? HN has all sorts of sneaky punishments to keep people from noticing what's going on. Shadow bans, limiting how many comments you can post per day, sometimes outright refusing to serve you pages with a "Sorry." error, and even flagging isn't visible to the person whose comment got flagged. HN doesn't notify you in any way for any of this. How often do you check your comments while logged out? That includes old comments, of course, which need to be rechecked on a periodic basis. Archives provide some limitation to how much manipulation can happen, but flagging is a thing, can be abused by anyone with enough karma, and provides a lot of plausible deniability for dang should he opt for a stealthier approach to moderation. Even this account is shadowbanned - and this comment automatically flagged - because I had the audacity to create an account with a VPN, in a world where VPNs are a requirement for unrestricted Internet access for a growing number of people living in "democratic" countries. The only way I know this is through testing, of course, because HN gives no indication that your account will be shadowbanned on creation.
    - squigz 11mo ago
      > HN has all sorts of sneaky punishments to keep people from noticing what's going on Another way of putting this is that HN has very standard mechanisms in place to combat spam and other sources of low-signal comments. > Shadow bans, limiting how many comments you can post per day Like these. > Sometimes outright refusing to serve you pages with a "Sorry." error, This just sounds like downtime/server problems. Every site has them, and even the most law-abiding posters on HN will see that sometimes. > even flagging isn't visible to the person whose comment got flagged. Yes it is? > HN doesn't notify you in any way for any of this. This is by design; HN doesn't offer notifications of anything on its own. Besides, most platforms don't usually notify people of these things by default either? > Even this account is shadowbanned - and this comment automatically flagged - because I had the audacity to create an account with a VPN, in a world where VPNs are a requirement for unrestricted Internet access for a growing number of people living in "democratic" countries. The only way I know this is through testing, of course, because HN gives no indication that your account will be shadowbanned on creation. I don't think you need to be so indignant. VPNs are also abused. All of these mechanisms are tradeoffs for making HN one of the best sites I've ever been on for productive, intelligent discussion; and the mods are well aware of this and manage to balance it well. For example, you were still able to register, and you and I are still able to exchange comments. If you contribute to discussions (on an account you don't just throwaway) for a little while, the limitations go away.
- duckmysick 11mo ago
  > no publicly available data that would demonstrate adherence to the rule. What kind of data would satisfy you? I imagine any data coming directly from YC would be untrustworthy and third-party data would be incomplete (say, it wouldn't catch content removed before it's published). Is there a similar data set for other private platforms?
  - TimorousBestie 11mo ago
    A public moderation log would satisfy me just fine, and is common practice on other forums.
deleted 11mo ago
[deleted]

sergiotapia 11mo ago

So these are the scumbags putting cameras in front of schools and sending tickets to people on Sundays. Thank you for making peoples lives materially WORSE.

sneak 11mo ago
Speeding tickets are not related in any way to why Flock (YC S17)* is bad. * how I will now always refer to them
tomjakubowski 11mo ago
Cameras at schools, I can see how that could be concerning. But what's wrong with ticketing drivers on Sundays?
- CamperBob2 11mo ago
  Nothing, I guess, but don't try to tell us it's about "safety" when school-zone speed limits are enforced on Sundays when school is out. That said, I don't think Flock has anything to do with speed cameras in school zones or anywhere else.
  - FireBeyond 11mo ago
    Hah, about a decade I had a cop try to pull that one on me, pulled over for speeding in a school zone on a Saturday morning. "Even if you can't see kids at a school you should assume they're around". Judge had about as much patience for that argument as I did. Dismissed.

mmooss 11mo ago

Are dang and tomhow involved at all in YC member ethics? I expect they know about ethical behavior on HN.

venturecruelty 11mo ago

First time?

nrhrjrjrjtntbt 11mo ago

VC system with multiple investors means YC can't tell their company what to do. No mote than you can tell Google what to do because you have $100M in shares.

FireBeyond 11mo ago
There are economies of scale. But if one of your investors owns even a single digit percentage of your company and calls you to comment on direction or strategy, if you're wise, you pick up the phone.

nerdsniper 11mo ago

To some extent, YCombinator partners are on the record[0] supporting the idea of their startups doing illegal things. Generally they'll frame this as challenging outdated regulations, but they acknowledge that the founders whose strategies they fully support sometimes come into office hours and discuss how they're worried that the strategy puts them at risk of going to jail. 0: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hm-ZIiwiN1o&t=8m46s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hm-ZIiwiN1o&t=8m46s

s5300 11mo ago

[dead]

wahnfrieden 11mo ago

[flagged]

deleted 11mo ago

[deleted]