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Hasn't Tiktok already done that? Oh, and the extreme brain drain the west imposed on everyone else, from South Africa to China, resulting in no available "brai

by spwa4 11mo ago

Hasn't Tiktok already done that? Oh, and the extreme brain drain the west imposed on everyone else, from South Africa to China, resulting in no available "brains", let's say, in those countries, and in the rich countries only brains available that aren't invested in making westerners smart, along with a disdain among existing populations of professions that require brains.

grugagag 11mo ago
Stupid is a continuum. The tiktok stupid may pale in comparison if AI is blindly implemented at all levels of education.
johnfn 11mo ago
Yes, yes, it's certainly not social media, or the plethora of apps that cater to and in some ways create an ever-shortening attention span (Reddit, TikTok, Facebook, Instagram, ...). It's definitely that thing you can use to research and learn anything you could ever want -- that is the thing which will unquestionably make our children stupid.
- forgetfreeman 11mo ago
  If it takes a few thousand pages of textbooks or other reference material to gain competence with a given topic how is consuming superficial summaries provided by AI expected to produce comparable results?
  - NeutralCrane 11mo ago
    > If it takes a few thousand pages of textbooks or other reference material to gain competence This is a huge assumption and not one I’m sure holds up. In my experience gaining competence is often more a matter of hands on experimentation and experience, and the thousands of pages of reference material are there to get you to the point where you can start getting hands on experience, and debug your experiments when they don’t work. If AI can meaningfully cut back on that by more efficiently getting people to the experimentation stage, it absolutely will be more effective. And so far in my limited experience, it seems extremely promising.
    - forgetfreeman 11mo ago
      Uh yeah, no. For all of the same reasons that Cliff Notes do not stack up against actually reading the assigned literature. For all of the same reasons that skimming search results to win lazy arguments online doesn't stack up against an actual formal education on whatever the argument is about. For all of the same reasons an hour of Youtube University doesn't produce the same outcomes as a decade of experience working in the trades. See the pattern?
FrankyHollywood 11mo ago
Don't know if TikTok is the problem, a generation ago (some) kids mindlessly watched cartoons for hours a day. I think this is mostly about learning to think and develop grit. As a kid when I wanted to play a game I had to learn dos commands, know how to troubleshoot a non functioning sounds blaster etc. Sometimes took me days to fix. Doing this develops understanding of a domain, problem-solving skills and grit. My kid just opens steam and everything works. Any question he has he asks AI. I am really curious what effect this will have on this generation. It is tempting to quickly say "they will be brain dead zombies" but that seems too simplistic. In 20yrs we'll know!
- spwa4 11mo ago
  > My kid just opens steam and everything works. Any question he has he asks AI (... and then presumably he applies what the AI tells him, occasionally asking why) Frankly, this is a much better and targeted way to learn. If this is what happens, great! I mean, I'd give him an intro how to pirate games, because 1) it's a technical challenge with a built-in reward 2) AIs (especially Gemini, but more and more ChatGPT too) refuse to help doing it So a truly excellent pursuit for learning! But I do feel it's very different from what happens with smartphones and that is desperately bad.
- Fire-Dragon-DoL 11mo ago
  I keep seeing that people ask question to AI. That sounds like a dedicated teacher though, not that bad? Like asking questions and learning how and what questions to ask is an amazing skill
  - kcplate 11mo ago
    > That sounds like a dedicated teacher though, not that bad? Assuming the teacher provides the right answers…or at least when it doesn’t know the answer it doesn’t make up bullshit just to give an answer.
    - Fire-Dragon-DoL 11mo ago
      That's one which is likely to get better, given that the money is behind the AI that spits out the right answers

by spwa4 11mo ago

grugagag 11mo ago

Stupid is a continuum. The tiktok stupid may pale in comparison if AI is blindly implemented at all levels of education.

johnfn 11mo ago

Yes, yes, it's certainly not social media, or the plethora of apps that cater to and in some ways create an ever-shortening attention span (Reddit, TikTok, Facebook, Instagram, ...). It's definitely that thing you can use to research and learn anything you could ever want -- that is the thing which will unquestionably make our children stupid.

forgetfreeman 11mo ago
If it takes a few thousand pages of textbooks or other reference material to gain competence with a given topic how is consuming superficial summaries provided by AI expected to produce comparable results?
- NeutralCrane 11mo ago
  > If it takes a few thousand pages of textbooks or other reference material to gain competence This is a huge assumption and not one I’m sure holds up. In my experience gaining competence is often more a matter of hands on experimentation and experience, and the thousands of pages of reference material are there to get you to the point where you can start getting hands on experience, and debug your experiments when they don’t work. If AI can meaningfully cut back on that by more efficiently getting people to the experimentation stage, it absolutely will be more effective. And so far in my limited experience, it seems extremely promising.
  - forgetfreeman 11mo ago
    Uh yeah, no. For all of the same reasons that Cliff Notes do not stack up against actually reading the assigned literature. For all of the same reasons that skimming search results to win lazy arguments online doesn't stack up against an actual formal education on whatever the argument is about. For all of the same reasons an hour of Youtube University doesn't produce the same outcomes as a decade of experience working in the trades. See the pattern?

FrankyHollywood 11mo ago

Don't know if TikTok is the problem, a generation ago (some) kids mindlessly watched cartoons for hours a day. I think this is mostly about learning to think and develop grit. As a kid when I wanted to play a game I had to learn dos commands, know how to troubleshoot a non functioning sounds blaster etc. Sometimes took me days to fix. Doing this develops understanding of a domain, problem-solving skills and grit. My kid just opens steam and everything works. Any question he has he asks AI. I am really curious what effect this will have on this generation. It is tempting to quickly say "they will be brain dead zombies" but that seems too simplistic. In 20yrs we'll know!

spwa4 11mo ago
> My kid just opens steam and everything works. Any question he has he asks AI (... and then presumably he applies what the AI tells him, occasionally asking why) Frankly, this is a much better and targeted way to learn. If this is what happens, great! I mean, I'd give him an intro how to pirate games, because 1) it's a technical challenge with a built-in reward 2) AIs (especially Gemini, but more and more ChatGPT too) refuse to help doing it So a truly excellent pursuit for learning! But I do feel it's very different from what happens with smartphones and that is desperately bad.
Fire-Dragon-DoL 11mo ago
I keep seeing that people ask question to AI. That sounds like a dedicated teacher though, not that bad? Like asking questions and learning how and what questions to ask is an amazing skill
- kcplate 11mo ago
  > That sounds like a dedicated teacher though, not that bad? Assuming the teacher provides the right answers…or at least when it doesn’t know the answer it doesn’t make up bullshit just to give an answer.
  - Fire-Dragon-DoL 11mo ago
    That's one which is likely to get better, given that the money is behind the AI that spits out the right answers