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I think it's lawlessness overall. For instance, consider San Fransisco traffic citations. Went from around 11k in 2014-2015 steadily down and then fell off a cl

by bko 10mo ago

I think it's lawlessness overall. For instance, consider San Fransisco traffic citations. Went from around 11k in 2014-2015 steadily down and then fell off a cliff during covid but never recovered (around 1k in 2023). I remember the sad story of Eric Garner who was killed in 2014 while being arrested for selling loose cigarettes in Staten Island. Today, at least in NYC, you see people parked out in front of the same corner every day selling weed and loose cigarettes. Same people, out in the open. I'm pretty sure that's not a sanctioned dispensary. Just shows how much things can change in ten years. For whatever reason, police and prosecutors just gave up in enforcing any kind of laws. Seems like an overreaction to whatever problems we had with criminal justice https://www.reddit.com/r/sanfrancisco/comments/11nbnxw/san_francisco_traffic_citations_20142023/ https://www.reddit.com/r/sanfrancisco/comments/11nbnxw/san_f... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Michael_Brown https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Michael_Brown

deleted 10mo ago
[deleted]
antonymoose 10mo ago
I do believe you’re mixing up Michael Brown in Missouri who robbed a gas station and assaulted a cop and attempted to steal his pistol (per your own link) with Eric Garner in New York who was choked out by a police officer and subsequently died.
- bko 10mo ago
  Yes, I am. Updated. Thank you
nomel 10mo ago
https://www.nationalacademies.org/news/to-reduce-racial-inequality-in-the-criminal-justice-system-government-should-explore-ways-to-reduce-police-stops-detention-and-long-sentences-says-new-report https://www.nationalacademies.org/news/to-reduce-racial-ineq... Are there any stats for incorrect crime reporting based on political leaning?
- LorenPechtel 10mo ago
  And where does that suggest incorrect crime reporting for political reasons? Your article is just another version of pretending disparate outcomes is proof of discrimination. Totally wrong, but not what you say it's saying.
  - nomel 10mo ago
    Are you saying the article must suggest it for it to be evidence of???
roughly 10mo ago
I think it’s underappreciated the degree to which police and LEO have started behaving like political actors. NYC cops decided to “strike on the job” when the city started changing its stance in the mid-2010s, and in the Bay the cops responded similarly to Prop 47 by effectively not prosecuting shoplifting and other minor crimes anymore. Similarly, the recall of Pamela Price started almost the moment she took office and was accompanied by a work slowdown by the OPD in the interest of making the crime situation look worse. There’s other examples, but effectively the police have turned lax enforcement into a tool to preclude any shifts in policing policies. I’ve got my own feelings about those policies, but when you’ve got the cops acting like a political block that gets to set policies instead of a group of city employees tasked with enforcing them, I think that should concern the rest of us.
- epistasis 10mo ago
  It's not entirely new! In 1975 during labor negotiations the police detonated a bomb on the mayor's yard, partially damaging the front door, and left a note saying "Don't threaten us": https://cdnc.ucr.edu/?a=d&d=DS19750820.2.20 https://cdnc.ucr.edu/?a=d&d=DS19750820.2.20 Since then, the SFPF have always had a culture of being above the law. The monopoly on legal violence thing can be taken a bit too far.
- bko 10mo ago
  There's probably some of this, but I think it's driven by district attorney not prosecuting people. We see people that have 20+ prior arrests. How many times can a cop arrest the same person and do the paperwork if he's not going to be prosecuted? I don't think people are pushing police to arrest more people. > Nearly a third of all shoplifting arrests in New York City last year involved just 327 people, the police said. Collectively, they were arrested and rearrested more than 6,000 times, Police Commissioner Keechant Sewell said. Some engage in shoplifting as a trade, while others are driven by addiction or mental illness; the police did not identify the 327 people in the analysis. Not clear if that's only in 1 year, but 6,000 arrests for the same 327 people means 18 arrests per person on average. Maybe if you see the same person shoplifting more than 5 times you put him away for some real time. 10 times? Hell even 20 strikes and you're out would make a real dent and serve as a deterrent. https://archive.is/VCKkk#selection-473.0-473.379 https://archive.is/VCKkk#selection-473.0-473.379

by bko 10mo ago

deleted 10mo ago

[deleted]

antonymoose 10mo ago

I do believe you’re mixing up Michael Brown in Missouri who robbed a gas station and assaulted a cop and attempted to steal his pistol (per your own link) with Eric Garner in New York who was choked out by a police officer and subsequently died.

bko 10mo ago
Yes, I am. Updated. Thank you

nomel 10mo ago

https://www.nationalacademies.org/news/to-reduce-racial-inequality-in-the-criminal-justice-system-government-should-explore-ways-to-reduce-police-stops-detention-and-long-sentences-says-new-report https://www.nationalacademies.org/news/to-reduce-racial-ineq... Are there any stats for incorrect crime reporting based on political leaning?

LorenPechtel 10mo ago
And where does that suggest incorrect crime reporting for political reasons? Your article is just another version of pretending disparate outcomes is proof of discrimination. Totally wrong, but not what you say it's saying.
- nomel 10mo ago
  Are you saying the article must suggest it for it to be evidence of???

roughly 10mo ago

I think it’s underappreciated the degree to which police and LEO have started behaving like political actors. NYC cops decided to “strike on the job” when the city started changing its stance in the mid-2010s, and in the Bay the cops responded similarly to Prop 47 by effectively not prosecuting shoplifting and other minor crimes anymore. Similarly, the recall of Pamela Price started almost the moment she took office and was accompanied by a work slowdown by the OPD in the interest of making the crime situation look worse. There’s other examples, but effectively the police have turned lax enforcement into a tool to preclude any shifts in policing policies. I’ve got my own feelings about those policies, but when you’ve got the cops acting like a political block that gets to set policies instead of a group of city employees tasked with enforcing them, I think that should concern the rest of us.

epistasis 10mo ago
It's not entirely new! In 1975 during labor negotiations the police detonated a bomb on the mayor's yard, partially damaging the front door, and left a note saying "Don't threaten us": https://cdnc.ucr.edu/?a=d&d=DS19750820.2.20 https://cdnc.ucr.edu/?a=d&d=DS19750820.2.20 Since then, the SFPF have always had a culture of being above the law. The monopoly on legal violence thing can be taken a bit too far.
bko 10mo ago
There's probably some of this, but I think it's driven by district attorney not prosecuting people. We see people that have 20+ prior arrests. How many times can a cop arrest the same person and do the paperwork if he's not going to be prosecuted? I don't think people are pushing police to arrest more people. > Nearly a third of all shoplifting arrests in New York City last year involved just 327 people, the police said. Collectively, they were arrested and rearrested more than 6,000 times, Police Commissioner Keechant Sewell said. Some engage in shoplifting as a trade, while others are driven by addiction or mental illness; the police did not identify the 327 people in the analysis. Not clear if that's only in 1 year, but 6,000 arrests for the same 327 people means 18 arrests per person on average. Maybe if you see the same person shoplifting more than 5 times you put him away for some real time. 10 times? Hell even 20 strikes and you're out would make a real dent and serve as a deterrent. https://archive.is/VCKkk#selection-473.0-473.379 https://archive.is/VCKkk#selection-473.0-473.379