3 ms·

> It isn't some paradise. Compared to the USA it still is.

nephihaha 10mo ago
The EU has better healthcare and welfare overall, but fewer individual rights in other areas. Less gun crime (although this depends on region). Poverty levels vary a lot across the EU. Americans take homeschooling for granted, for better or worse, but it is banned in some European countries like Germany. Also the USA allows groups such as the Amish their liberty, which would be extremely unlikely in much of the EU where state interference would either force them out or destroy them. The US has umpteen issues but is much better for freedom of expression frankly, although it is being steered away from that.
- watwut 10mo ago
  Right now EU is not arresting own citizens for failure to provide ID card while america does that even when said people have id card. EU is not demanding 5 yeara of social media public from kids entering in. EU is not killing fisherman to feel manly. EU is overall more democratic and more free. The parts that sux Hungary and Slovakia dont sux because of EU, but despite it. It is ok for Germany to not have homeschooling.
  - nephihaha 10mo ago
    The EU is not more "free". There are a lot of things you can't say or will get shut down for. Most of the EU does not have the same freedom of expression or religion that the USA guarantees in its founding documents. The collective cannot have freedom if the individual does not. That includes the right to disagree. The EU and USA are going down the same road. Social media is a part of this censorship of open discussion and is usually American based, but works hand in hand with the European governments. Both European and American governments seem happy to deceive citizens into a surveillance state. It is unacceptable to ban homeschooling. Some children need to be homeschooled, because of disabilities, or even high intelligence. Given the fact that Germany has suffered from both far right and far left dictatorships within living memory, anything that does not promote blind obedience to the state should be encouraged. Many parts of Europe retain a feudal mentality, which includes constant deference to authority.
    - mopsi 10mo ago
      > There are a lot of things you can't say or will get shut down for. Such as? I honestly can't think of anything. > It is unacceptable to ban homeschooling. Some children need to be homeschooled, because of disabilities, or even high intelligence. European education laws prioritize the child's right to education and social development over parental autonomy as an absolute. Mandatory schooling laws have been adopted to ensure minimum educational standards and to safeguard against neglect and abuse, which is especially important when it comes to disabilities. Someone with proper training and decades of experience will educate a disabled child far more effectively than a parent whose only guaranteed qualification may be knowing how to have sex.
      - carlosjobim 10mo ago
        Not all European countries have banned home schooling. Not even all members of the EU. As for neglect and abuse of children, the public schools is where you will most readily find it. Including bullying until children commit suicide. And school shootings. Which is a lesser risk at home. No matter which continent.
        nephihaha 10mo ago
        No one said all EU countries have banned homeschooling. That is just one issue. Schools are a haven for bullying, both by students and teachers. I did have some good teachers but some of them were also the most cruel and abusive people I've ever met.
        pezezin 10mo ago
        Please tell me more about the daily school shootings in Europe.
      - jenadine 10mo ago
        > Such as? Well, we can't say them. (but it involves nazies, denying genocides, hate speech, and this kind of stuff. It also depends on the country)
      - 10mo ago
- 8note 10mo ago
  the eu is better for online freedom of expression, with its GDPR regulations
  - nephihaha 10mo ago
    GDPR is decent, but the governments themselves are pushing surveillance so it is two steps forward and one back.
- integralid 10mo ago
  I've read somewhere that Americans understand freedom as "freedom TO", shiny Europeans understand freedom as "freedom FROM". This is extremely visible in this thread and probably a cause of many misunderstandings.
  - saubeidl 10mo ago
    This is definitely the case. There's philosophical terms for this: America emphasizes negative liberty ("freedom from interference by other people. Negative liberty is primarily concerned with freedom from external restraint") , while Europe emphasizes positive liberty ("the possession of the power and resources to act in the context of the structural limitations of the broader society which impacts a person's ability to act") https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_liberty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_liberty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_liberty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_liberty

The EU has better healthcare and welfare overall, but fewer individual rights in other areas. Less gun crime (although this depends on region). Poverty levels vary a lot across the EU. Americans take homeschooling for granted, for better or worse, but it is banned in some European countries like Germany. Also the USA allows groups such as the Amish their liberty, which would be extremely unlikely in much of the EU where state interference would either force them out or destroy them. The US has umpteen issues but is much better for freedom of expression frankly, although it is being steered away from that.

watwut 10mo ago
Right now EU is not arresting own citizens for failure to provide ID card while america does that even when said people have id card. EU is not demanding 5 yeara of social media public from kids entering in. EU is not killing fisherman to feel manly. EU is overall more democratic and more free. The parts that sux Hungary and Slovakia dont sux because of EU, but despite it. It is ok for Germany to not have homeschooling.
- nephihaha 10mo ago
  The EU is not more "free". There are a lot of things you can't say or will get shut down for. Most of the EU does not have the same freedom of expression or religion that the USA guarantees in its founding documents. The collective cannot have freedom if the individual does not. That includes the right to disagree. The EU and USA are going down the same road. Social media is a part of this censorship of open discussion and is usually American based, but works hand in hand with the European governments. Both European and American governments seem happy to deceive citizens into a surveillance state. It is unacceptable to ban homeschooling. Some children need to be homeschooled, because of disabilities, or even high intelligence. Given the fact that Germany has suffered from both far right and far left dictatorships within living memory, anything that does not promote blind obedience to the state should be encouraged. Many parts of Europe retain a feudal mentality, which includes constant deference to authority.
  - mopsi 10mo ago
    > There are a lot of things you can't say or will get shut down for. Such as? I honestly can't think of anything. > It is unacceptable to ban homeschooling. Some children need to be homeschooled, because of disabilities, or even high intelligence. European education laws prioritize the child's right to education and social development over parental autonomy as an absolute. Mandatory schooling laws have been adopted to ensure minimum educational standards and to safeguard against neglect and abuse, which is especially important when it comes to disabilities. Someone with proper training and decades of experience will educate a disabled child far more effectively than a parent whose only guaranteed qualification may be knowing how to have sex.
    - carlosjobim 10mo ago
      Not all European countries have banned home schooling. Not even all members of the EU. As for neglect and abuse of children, the public schools is where you will most readily find it. Including bullying until children commit suicide. And school shootings. Which is a lesser risk at home. No matter which continent.
      - nephihaha 10mo ago
        No one said all EU countries have banned homeschooling. That is just one issue. Schools are a haven for bullying, both by students and teachers. I did have some good teachers but some of them were also the most cruel and abusive people I've ever met.
      - pezezin 10mo ago
        Please tell me more about the daily school shootings in Europe.
    - jenadine 10mo ago
      > Such as? Well, we can't say them. (but it involves nazies, denying genocides, hate speech, and this kind of stuff. It also depends on the country)
    - 10mo ago
8note 10mo ago
the eu is better for online freedom of expression, with its GDPR regulations
- nephihaha 10mo ago
  GDPR is decent, but the governments themselves are pushing surveillance so it is two steps forward and one back.
integralid 10mo ago
I've read somewhere that Americans understand freedom as "freedom TO", shiny Europeans understand freedom as "freedom FROM". This is extremely visible in this thread and probably a cause of many misunderstandings.
- saubeidl 10mo ago
  This is definitely the case. There's philosophical terms for this: America emphasizes negative liberty ("freedom from interference by other people. Negative liberty is primarily concerned with freedom from external restraint") , while Europe emphasizes positive liberty ("the possession of the power and resources to act in the context of the structural limitations of the broader society which impacts a person's ability to act") https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_liberty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_liberty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_liberty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_liberty