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This seems like the wrong end of the system to fix the problem. Someone saying "we don't log your IP address" isn't something you can easily verify, so the prom

This seems like the wrong end of the system to fix the problem. Someone saying "we don't log your IP address" isn't something you can easily verify, so the promise doesn't mean much because if they suck they're just going to lie about it. What you need instead is to make it easy and common for people to use browsers that resist fingerprinting, VPNs/Tor, custom email addresses per-account, etc. Because then instead of claiming to not log your information, they simply do not have it. The biggest thing we need is a better way to pay someone over the internet without them knowing who you are.

HelloUsername 11mo ago
> The biggest thing we need is a better way to pay someone over the internet without them knowing who you are. Cryptocurrency?
- AnthonyMouse 11mo ago
  If it was made easy and common for ordinary people to use.
  - abc123abc123 11mo ago
    True. For 99% of the people mining it yourself of demanding getting paid in crypto is not viable. That means you go to an exchange, and all you do is then logged at this government regulated exchange. I suppose you could engage in some cloak and dagger exchange at night, but again, the 99% won't do that. The ones who do, are most likely capable of setting up their own services, anonymously, so they don't need to have a commercial, for-profit as their middleman.
- wseqyrku 11mo ago
  That's what I thought. I think an open source crypto payment gateway that "just works" could probably make it more prevalent. (Is there any?)
  - __MatrixMan__ 11mo ago
    Isn't that pretty much table stakes for being a cryptocurrency? Run a node (they're all open source), publish your address, and you're all set up to receive payments in that currency. Every one I've tried "just works". The trick is getting people to join you.
    - wseqyrku 11mo ago
      > Every one I've tried "just works". The trick is getting people to join you. As the other comment pointed out, if it's easy enough, that problem will take care of itself. I would also add "lightweight", cloning the entire block is not something everyone would do.
      - deleted 11mo ago
        [deleted]
      - __MatrixMan__ 11mo ago
        OK so its not trivial, but I really don't think it's a UX problem. Your grocer and your landlord don't accept crypto not because they can't figure it out, but because so far it hasn't shown itself to be an improvement. It's got superior privacy properties, sure, but for most people that's not enough. Its gotta be better on other merits too. Until then it wont matter how easy it is to use because you'll still have to turn it back into fiat to use it and now you've just reinvented the problem you were trying to solve with crypto in the first place.
        wseqyrku 11mo ago
        > Your grocer and your landlord don't accept crypto I don't mind using fiat for groceries. I'm talking only about digital currencies for digital services. That's it, at least for starters. > Its gotta be better on other merits too. There, a market niche deliberately being overlooked. You can totally reverse benchmark this whole thing if you can actually see its current flaws that prevents it to become mainstream. > and now you've just reinvented the problem you were trying to solve One intractable problem at a time my friend. I feel like those are the excuses we've been telling ourselves to not even try. The fact of the matter is that it's going to take time even after you have the infrastructure in place. You can read endless HN comments complaining about, let's call it the situation, on the side but I believe if anything at all it's going to be a grassroots movement and it has to start somewhere. It's actually pretty straightforward, take something that is hard, that you're an expert in, and make it stupidly easy. That's the formula I use anyways but crypto is not my strong suit.
hilbert42 11mo ago
"The biggest thing we need is a better way to pay someone over the internet without them knowing who you are." I've been saying that for years. Buy a prepaid card for cash at say the supermarket with xyz value on it and a unique email address included (an anonymous debit card with email). That is every new card you buy would have a different disposable email address that would expire when the card is empty. Such a scheme could also be used to donate micro payments to opensource projects, ad-free Youtubers, etc. and do so anonymously. Moreover, it would make payments easier thus overcome the "requires effort to do" resistance when it comes to donating. Making donating super easy would I reckon greatly increase the income for all those on the receiving end. However I can't see it happening, governments would outlaw it claiming it'd be used to transfer money for nefarious purposes, money laundering etc. The major reason I don't donate to good/charitable causes is that I cannot do so anonymously. Shame really.
- goopypoop 11mo ago
  why not stuff wads of hundreds into collection boxes?
- DesiLurker 11mo ago
  check if they accept zcash
- AnthonyMouse 11mo ago
  > However I can't see it happening, governments would outlaw it claiming it'd be used to transfer money for nefarious purposes, money laundering etc. I feel like it's too common for people to say "we can't have nice things because the government is run by a clutter of lummoxes" when they should be saying "we should improve society somewhat".
_el1s7 11mo ago
> The biggest thing we need is a better way to pay someone over the internet without them knowing who you are. What's the reason you don't want sellers to know who you are? That would be like buying things in real life while wearing a ski mask and paying with cash.
- orbital-decay 11mo ago
  What's the reason for the seller to know who I am? Any normal pre-total-surveillance store would've had zero issues selling me something for cash if I walked in wearing a ski mask.
  - bigstrat2003 11mo ago
    That is not remotely true, dude. Probably some stores would've been ok with it. But for the past 40 years or more, wearing a ski mask around has had the connotation of "this person is up to no good". A lot of stores would've had a problem with your hypothetical purchase for quite some time now.
    - AnthonyMouse 11mo ago
      Let's never mind the ski mask. For thousands of years, a stranger could walk into a store and buy something for cash. The store didn't know their name, didn't have surveillance cameras or computers because they didn't exist and generally wouldn't even be able to remember that the purchase had happened if asked about it six months later.

HelloUsername 11mo ago

> The biggest thing we need is a better way to pay someone over the internet without them knowing who you are. Cryptocurrency?

AnthonyMouse 11mo ago
If it was made easy and common for ordinary people to use.
- abc123abc123 11mo ago
  True. For 99% of the people mining it yourself of demanding getting paid in crypto is not viable. That means you go to an exchange, and all you do is then logged at this government regulated exchange. I suppose you could engage in some cloak and dagger exchange at night, but again, the 99% won't do that. The ones who do, are most likely capable of setting up their own services, anonymously, so they don't need to have a commercial, for-profit as their middleman.
wseqyrku 11mo ago
That's what I thought. I think an open source crypto payment gateway that "just works" could probably make it more prevalent. (Is there any?)
- __MatrixMan__ 11mo ago
  Isn't that pretty much table stakes for being a cryptocurrency? Run a node (they're all open source), publish your address, and you're all set up to receive payments in that currency. Every one I've tried "just works". The trick is getting people to join you.
  - wseqyrku 11mo ago
    > Every one I've tried "just works". The trick is getting people to join you. As the other comment pointed out, if it's easy enough, that problem will take care of itself. I would also add "lightweight", cloning the entire block is not something everyone would do.
    - deleted 11mo ago
      [deleted]
    - __MatrixMan__ 11mo ago
      OK so its not trivial, but I really don't think it's a UX problem. Your grocer and your landlord don't accept crypto not because they can't figure it out, but because so far it hasn't shown itself to be an improvement. It's got superior privacy properties, sure, but for most people that's not enough. Its gotta be better on other merits too. Until then it wont matter how easy it is to use because you'll still have to turn it back into fiat to use it and now you've just reinvented the problem you were trying to solve with crypto in the first place.
      - wseqyrku 11mo ago
        > Your grocer and your landlord don't accept crypto I don't mind using fiat for groceries. I'm talking only about digital currencies for digital services. That's it, at least for starters. > Its gotta be better on other merits too. There, a market niche deliberately being overlooked. You can totally reverse benchmark this whole thing if you can actually see its current flaws that prevents it to become mainstream. > and now you've just reinvented the problem you were trying to solve One intractable problem at a time my friend. I feel like those are the excuses we've been telling ourselves to not even try. The fact of the matter is that it's going to take time even after you have the infrastructure in place. You can read endless HN comments complaining about, let's call it the situation, on the side but I believe if anything at all it's going to be a grassroots movement and it has to start somewhere. It's actually pretty straightforward, take something that is hard, that you're an expert in, and make it stupidly easy. That's the formula I use anyways but crypto is not my strong suit.

hilbert42 11mo ago

"The biggest thing we need is a better way to pay someone over the internet without them knowing who you are." I've been saying that for years. Buy a prepaid card for cash at say the supermarket with xyz value on it and a unique email address included (an anonymous debit card with email). That is every new card you buy would have a different disposable email address that would expire when the card is empty. Such a scheme could also be used to donate micro payments to opensource projects, ad-free Youtubers, etc. and do so anonymously. Moreover, it would make payments easier thus overcome the "requires effort to do" resistance when it comes to donating. Making donating super easy would I reckon greatly increase the income for all those on the receiving end. However I can't see it happening, governments would outlaw it claiming it'd be used to transfer money for nefarious purposes, money laundering etc. The major reason I don't donate to good/charitable causes is that I cannot do so anonymously. Shame really.

goopypoop 11mo ago
why not stuff wads of hundreds into collection boxes?
DesiLurker 11mo ago
check if they accept zcash
AnthonyMouse 11mo ago
> However I can't see it happening, governments would outlaw it claiming it'd be used to transfer money for nefarious purposes, money laundering etc. I feel like it's too common for people to say "we can't have nice things because the government is run by a clutter of lummoxes" when they should be saying "we should improve society somewhat".

_el1s7 11mo ago

> The biggest thing we need is a better way to pay someone over the internet without them knowing who you are. What's the reason you don't want sellers to know who you are? That would be like buying things in real life while wearing a ski mask and paying with cash.

orbital-decay 11mo ago
What's the reason for the seller to know who I am? Any normal pre-total-surveillance store would've had zero issues selling me something for cash if I walked in wearing a ski mask.
- bigstrat2003 11mo ago
  That is not remotely true, dude. Probably some stores would've been ok with it. But for the past 40 years or more, wearing a ski mask around has had the connotation of "this person is up to no good". A lot of stores would've had a problem with your hypothetical purchase for quite some time now.
  - AnthonyMouse 11mo ago
    Let's never mind the ski mask. For thousands of years, a stranger could walk into a store and buy something for cash. The store didn't know their name, didn't have surveillance cameras or computers because they didn't exist and generally wouldn't even be able to remember that the purchase had happened if asked about it six months later.