6 ms·

Isn't the plan of project 2025 to collapse the USA into smaller states?

jacquesm 10mo ago
I don't know what the 'plan' is anymore other than that it seems to entail destabilization and destruction of the most powerful nation on the earth into a bit player making this every two bit dictator's wet dream. There is no way this ends well if it is not arrested.
- niels8472 10mo ago
  If you assume the primary goal is self enrichment and the rest is just side effects and distractions, things immediately start making more sense.
  - johnnyanmac 10mo ago
    Yes, but then we have the blanket tarriffs. Which it seems even the most diehard are coming around to say was really, really stupid. Who's genuinely making a profit off this decision? That definitely tells me there's ego at play here more than anything else. Even money. That's the unheard of part of this year. Even the most blatantly corrupt politicians know not to actively throw money into a furnace.
    - Bombthecat 10mo ago
      They shorted the market and trump told people before he announced it. He even bragged about it: this guy made millions the last few days
conradfr 10mo ago
What is the benefit? Separate from the "Democrat states"? But aren't they the richest?
- jacquesm 10mo ago
  I think the theory is something like 'ok, the bucket will be smaller but we're the same so effectively we will grow' where 'we' is the wealthy assholes that power this movement. The fact that a couple of million (billion?) people could die as a result of their landgrab is none of their concern. The billionaire class appears to be divorced from reality to a very dangerous degree, and there are enough useful idiots willing to hand them their support to make this a very dangerous time. I don't think we've ever been closer to potentially losing it all than we are right now. You're looking at 'divide and conquer' on a scale that we have never seen before and there are enough dominoes falling already that I don't even know if it still can be arrested.
  - scns 10mo ago
    A disregard for other people seems to be a prerequisite to becoming that wealthy for me. Hope i'm wrong, guess the good ones don't make the news. Surely they must exist
    - saubeidl 10mo ago
      I think if you cared even a little bit about other people, you'd realize that after say, ten million, your life is gonna be pretty damn sweet already and you'd try to help other people with your money instead of buying yachts. To become a billionaire requires sociopathic disregard for the suffering of others and a pathological need for more. There's no such thing as a good billionaire.
      - jacquesm 10mo ago
        > you'd realize that after say, ten million If you don't realize it by two you never will. Really, this is completely out of proportion by now, Marie Antoinette was a pauper by the standards these people live by.
        saubeidl 10mo ago
        With single family homes in some part of the world costing two by themselves, I think we can give it a little bit more leeway, especially if you're planning to retire and support your kids through college. But the point stands.
saubeidl 10mo ago
Remember how the collapse of the soviet union created the oligarch class of incredibly rich untouchables? American billionaires sure do.
- jacquesm 10mo ago
  Precisely. These cats fancy themselves the kings of the new world order, and if nobody stops them they'll pull it off too. But their plan appears to be quite messy and harder to execute on than they thought so all we have so far is a lot of destruction with not much to show for it. Even the White House looks like a demolition site and not a peep about it. I believe that if any past president had so much as suggested this rather than executed on it they'd have been impeached instantly.
dragonwriter 10mo ago
No, project 2025 is very much about centralizing federal power, securing and further entrenching Republican partisan power, and dismantling and/or restructuring federal institutions that are perceived as being particularly useful in implementing priorities the Right does not share so thar even should the attempt to enteench Republican institutional advantage not secure a permanent majority, the federal government will have been selectively institutionally crippled so that gearing up to do things Republicans would prefer not be done will take longer than it takes to bring Republicans back into power to stop it. Its very much about centralizing power while very carefully restructuring capacities, not decentralizing power.
- AnthonyMouse 10mo ago
  Maybe the other party should do the other thing then? Actually decentralize things and reduce federal power in ways that stick between administrations. Then the next Trump wouldn't have the power to do things like this, and meanwhile California and other states could be setting their own emissions standards or imposing network neutrality or antitrust rules etc. without federal interference.
  - BrenBarn 10mo ago
    No, I think the better idea is, if the Democrats get power, pack the union, remove the pardon power, and basically send everyone associated with either Trump administration to jail for life (including all House/Senate members who voted against impeachment). It might be necessary to execute some for treason. I don't see any way back to sanity without a Nuremberg-style process in which "conservatism" as we know it is gouged out of the political arena.
    - AnthonyMouse 10mo ago
      This is the exact attitude that got Trump back in office. Keep everything hyper-partisan and every election is flipping a coin to see who got 1% more votes this time, with everyone feeling like if they lose the other side is going to damage them on purpose because that's literally what they're saying they want to do. Instead you need to get some adults back in the room and start doing things like prosecuting government officials for corruption regardless of which party they're in, passing the laws that lower the cost of living even over the opposition of the people getting paid the higher costs, and actually enforcing antitrust laws instead of both parties using them as a cudgel to get tech and media corporations to bend the knee politically in exchange for not enforcing them.
drstewart 10mo ago
The plan of project 2025 is now apparently whatever you dream it to be whenever you want to rant wildly about it on the internet Don't bother looking it up on the wildly published document though. Just "ask questions" Isn't the EU's plan to make everyone pod people and use them for energy, like the Matrix? Potentially.

I don't know what the 'plan' is anymore other than that it seems to entail destabilization and destruction of the most powerful nation on the earth into a bit player making this every two bit dictator's wet dream. There is no way this ends well if it is not arrested.

niels8472 10mo ago
If you assume the primary goal is self enrichment and the rest is just side effects and distractions, things immediately start making more sense.
- johnnyanmac 10mo ago
  Yes, but then we have the blanket tarriffs. Which it seems even the most diehard are coming around to say was really, really stupid. Who's genuinely making a profit off this decision? That definitely tells me there's ego at play here more than anything else. Even money. That's the unheard of part of this year. Even the most blatantly corrupt politicians know not to actively throw money into a furnace.
  - Bombthecat 10mo ago
    They shorted the market and trump told people before he announced it. He even bragged about it: this guy made millions the last few days

conradfr 10mo ago

What is the benefit? Separate from the "Democrat states"? But aren't they the richest?

jacquesm 10mo ago
I think the theory is something like 'ok, the bucket will be smaller but we're the same so effectively we will grow' where 'we' is the wealthy assholes that power this movement. The fact that a couple of million (billion?) people could die as a result of their landgrab is none of their concern. The billionaire class appears to be divorced from reality to a very dangerous degree, and there are enough useful idiots willing to hand them their support to make this a very dangerous time. I don't think we've ever been closer to potentially losing it all than we are right now. You're looking at 'divide and conquer' on a scale that we have never seen before and there are enough dominoes falling already that I don't even know if it still can be arrested.
- scns 10mo ago
  A disregard for other people seems to be a prerequisite to becoming that wealthy for me. Hope i'm wrong, guess the good ones don't make the news. Surely they must exist
  - saubeidl 10mo ago
    I think if you cared even a little bit about other people, you'd realize that after say, ten million, your life is gonna be pretty damn sweet already and you'd try to help other people with your money instead of buying yachts. To become a billionaire requires sociopathic disregard for the suffering of others and a pathological need for more. There's no such thing as a good billionaire.
    - jacquesm 10mo ago
      > you'd realize that after say, ten million If you don't realize it by two you never will. Really, this is completely out of proportion by now, Marie Antoinette was a pauper by the standards these people live by.
      - saubeidl 10mo ago
        With single family homes in some part of the world costing two by themselves, I think we can give it a little bit more leeway, especially if you're planning to retire and support your kids through college. But the point stands.

saubeidl 10mo ago

Remember how the collapse of the soviet union created the oligarch class of incredibly rich untouchables? American billionaires sure do.

jacquesm 10mo ago
Precisely. These cats fancy themselves the kings of the new world order, and if nobody stops them they'll pull it off too. But their plan appears to be quite messy and harder to execute on than they thought so all we have so far is a lot of destruction with not much to show for it. Even the White House looks like a demolition site and not a peep about it. I believe that if any past president had so much as suggested this rather than executed on it they'd have been impeached instantly.

dragonwriter 10mo ago

No, project 2025 is very much about centralizing federal power, securing and further entrenching Republican partisan power, and dismantling and/or restructuring federal institutions that are perceived as being particularly useful in implementing priorities the Right does not share so thar even should the attempt to enteench Republican institutional advantage not secure a permanent majority, the federal government will have been selectively institutionally crippled so that gearing up to do things Republicans would prefer not be done will take longer than it takes to bring Republicans back into power to stop it. Its very much about centralizing power while very carefully restructuring capacities, not decentralizing power.

AnthonyMouse 10mo ago
Maybe the other party should do the other thing then? Actually decentralize things and reduce federal power in ways that stick between administrations. Then the next Trump wouldn't have the power to do things like this, and meanwhile California and other states could be setting their own emissions standards or imposing network neutrality or antitrust rules etc. without federal interference.
- BrenBarn 10mo ago
  No, I think the better idea is, if the Democrats get power, pack the union, remove the pardon power, and basically send everyone associated with either Trump administration to jail for life (including all House/Senate members who voted against impeachment). It might be necessary to execute some for treason. I don't see any way back to sanity without a Nuremberg-style process in which "conservatism" as we know it is gouged out of the political arena.
  - AnthonyMouse 10mo ago
    This is the exact attitude that got Trump back in office. Keep everything hyper-partisan and every election is flipping a coin to see who got 1% more votes this time, with everyone feeling like if they lose the other side is going to damage them on purpose because that's literally what they're saying they want to do. Instead you need to get some adults back in the room and start doing things like prosecuting government officials for corruption regardless of which party they're in, passing the laws that lower the cost of living even over the opposition of the people getting paid the higher costs, and actually enforcing antitrust laws instead of both parties using them as a cudgel to get tech and media corporations to bend the knee politically in exchange for not enforcing them.

drstewart 10mo ago

The plan of project 2025 is now apparently whatever you dream it to be whenever you want to rant wildly about it on the internet Don't bother looking it up on the wildly published document though. Just "ask questions" Isn't the EU's plan to make everyone pod people and use them for energy, like the Matrix? Potentially.