3 ms·

At least $9B billed across 14 Medicaid services in Minnesota may be fraudulent

65 points by mhb 10mo ago

cyanydeez 10mo ago
Says federal government whose credibility is worthless and has likely caused fraud multiple times this baseless estimate.
- quickthrowman 10mo ago
  The press release is 100% political. As someone who lives in Minnesota, I wish the US Attorney’s office would provide data about the alleged Medicare fraud to the MN state government, like they have requested. Instead, they speculate about a ridiculous amount of money being stolen ($9B) that is likely an order of magnitude larger than the actual loss, providing no proof, and sharing zero information with the relevant agencies in Minnesota’s government. If there is fraud, please prosecute it and collaborate with my state’s government to uncover it so our tax dollars can go towards medical care for real people. Actual fraud has happened here in MN, an organization called Feed Our Future stole hundreds of millions of dollars by claiming to provide food to students. [0], [1] We’d appreciate any actual help the federal government can provide, instead we get politicized press releases. [0] https://www.irs.gov/compliance/criminal-investigation/minneapolis-woman-pleads-guilty-in-250-million-feeding-our-future-fraud-scheme https://www.irs.gov/compliance/criminal-investigation/minnea... [1] https://www.justice.gov/usao-mn/pr/78th-defendant-charged-feeding-our-future-fraud-scheme https://www.justice.gov/usao-mn/pr/78th-defendant-charged-fe...
  - deleted 10mo ago
    [deleted]
  - msuniverse2026 10mo ago
    Wow, Najmo Ahmed, Said Ereg and Abdirashid Bixi Dool really did that?
    - blactuary 10mo ago
      What is this supposed to mean? Elaborate
  - Ancapistani 10mo ago
    > As someone who lives in Minnesota, I wish the US Attorney’s office would provide data about the alleged Medicare fraud to the MN state government, like they have requested. Your governor has been subpoenaed by House due to accusations that he was aware of the fraud. I’m not surprised the state isn’t in the loop.
    - jjk166 10mo ago
      > Your governor has been subpoenaed by House due to accusations that he was aware of the fraud. No he hasn't.
      - Ancapistani 10mo ago
        Ah, you’re right. I got my Minnesota fraud investigations confused. https://nypost.com/2024/09/04/us-news/tim-walz-hit-with-house-subpoena-for-records-on-250m-minn-covid-fraud/ https://nypost.com/2024/09/04/us-news/tim-walz-hit-with-hous...
  - cavisne 10mo ago
    The state government already failed with Feeding our Future and nothing has changed. The judge who "suggested" the payment of 250m is still serving his term, Jacob Frey (who's aide was indicted as part of it) is still in office, despite a literal vote rigging attempt to primary him. This should be handled at the federal level, even just to reduce the chances of another jury bribe attempt!
etchalon 10mo ago
I remember when I could trust Federal Prosecutors when they announced a crime had been committed.
mjmsmith 10mo ago
"Up to 100% of immigrants may be criminals."
- kcplate 10mo ago
  That statement is not factually incorrect. Neither is this statement: “Up to 100% of US citizens may be criminals”
  - RobotToaster 10mo ago
    “Up to 100% of politicians may be criminals”
    - hereme888 10mo ago
      And we keep getting them elected. Imagine an election where candidates are liable for the veracity of every claim they make, with immediate penalties to their candidacy, and only verified facts are allowed in ads.
      - JumpCrisscross 10mo ago
        > Imagine an election where candidates are liable for the veracity of every claim they make, with immediate penalties to their candidacy, and only verified facts are allowed in ads You cease to have a democracy. The real power sits with the verifier in that system.
        hereme888 10mo ago
        Important point.
  - mjmsmith 10mo ago
    Yes.
germinalphrase 10mo ago
This $9B figure is not a serious number; it’s a narrative. The concrete allegations released so far peg the criminal impact closer to $250 million which, let’s be honest, is bad enough. As a Minnesotan, I’m appalled by the scale of these thefts, but glad they are actively investigating and charging these people for their crimes. If we had an honest and right minded political/justice system, we would be seeking to uncover and prosecute fraud through the nation.
- hereme888 10mo ago
  I know so many honest citizens who could have benefitted from a tiny fraction of that money. But it's been under investigation for 4.5 years as I understand, and the theoretical numbers thrown by politicians (hype/lies) are increasingly confusing. So what's the hope for any correction?
  - germinalphrase 10mo ago
    I don’t hear many people in Minnesota trying to pretend the existence of these crimes is a hoax, fake news, etc. - so the hope is that we take our prosecutorial responsibilities seriously. Perhaps, so seriously that we set an expectation for the investigation and criminal prosecution of fraud and corruption vertically as well.
- hippo22 10mo ago
  It’s not like multi-billion Medicare / Medicaid fraud is unheard of. What makes you certain it’s not a serious number?
  - germinalphrase 10mo ago
    To my understanding, the total spending is around $18B, so the allegation that 50% of all spending is fraudulent requires quite the sniff test. Additionally, large multi-billion dollar fraud causes are usually associated with large organizations (like a hospital or insurance system) which is not the case here. Could it be $9B+? Stick enough vague qualifying words around your presentation of the probable truth then yea, sure - at least $9B in spending could be fraudulent.
hukkle 10mo ago
[flagged]
asmodeuslucifer 10mo ago
Just a reminder, the poor don't do the billing. Businesses do.
silisili 10mo ago
I've not been keeping up with the news lately though I'd heard about this in passing. Was this tipped off from prior investigations wrapping up finally, or the current federal gov's hatred of Walz and Omar? I mainly ask because it makes me curious how much fraud exists in other states - basically are we picking on MN, or are they the exception?
- derbOac 10mo ago
  It seems people in this thread are getting downvoted for pointing out that your questions are reasonable. There's a lot of disputes between state and federal authorities about this. The 9B figure is being disputed, and there's a lot of claims that the state has been kept in the dark about it intentionally, with claims that MN GOP House members on fraud investigation committees have been purposely withholding information from the state, forwarding their information instead to federal prosecutors. These House members don't seem to deny this: https://kstp.com/kstp-news/top-news/house-fraud-committee-withholding-whistleblower-tips-from-dhs-investigators/ https://kstp.com/kstp-news/top-news/house-fraud-committee-wi... https://www.startribune.com/walz-says-theres-no-evidence-of-9b-in-fraud-exposing-rift-between-state-and-feds/601549681 https://www.startribune.com/walz-says-theres-no-evidence-of-... I'm not sure people are really disputing that the fraud happened. I think there are disagreements about the scope of it and about the way in which the investigation has been happening, and the motives for the way in which it has happened. Here's the whistleblower portal they set up earlier this year for example: https://mnhouserepublicans.com/whistleblower-portal/ https://mnhouserepublicans.com/whistleblower-portal/ They then forwarded tips to the federal DOJ and not the state. So are they picking on MN? I don't think the fraud, to the extent it is there, is them picking on them. The way in which this has unfolded might be.
  - silisili 10mo ago
    Yeah, I usually shy away from these threads because any hint of politicism drives tribalism and people assuming whatever I said is on the enemy side, whatever that is. I just wanted to get more informed thoughts and opinions. In any event, thank you for the response and links.
- deleted 10mo ago
azemetre 10mo ago
If Florida is anything to go by, the person responsible for this will run for Governor then Senator while winning both elections.
barelysapient 10mo ago
If true, it’s an eye watering amount for such a small state.
- zoklet-enjoyer 10mo ago
  Pretty average size population for a US state.
xtajv 10mo ago
Friendly reminder: The Mayo Clinic is located in Minnesota. The Mayo Clinic does a lot of groundbreaking research, new techniques, ultra-rare diseases... stuff that is super awesome, but nonetheless relatively unlikely to have established billing norms. I will also remind you that in most U.S. states, the largest employer in the state is either a university or Walmart. In Minnesota, it's Mayo.

65 points by mhb 10mo ago

Says federal government whose credibility is worthless and has likely caused fraud multiple times this baseless estimate.

quickthrowman 10mo ago
The press release is 100% political. As someone who lives in Minnesota, I wish the US Attorney’s office would provide data about the alleged Medicare fraud to the MN state government, like they have requested. Instead, they speculate about a ridiculous amount of money being stolen ($9B) that is likely an order of magnitude larger than the actual loss, providing no proof, and sharing zero information with the relevant agencies in Minnesota’s government. If there is fraud, please prosecute it and collaborate with my state’s government to uncover it so our tax dollars can go towards medical care for real people. Actual fraud has happened here in MN, an organization called Feed Our Future stole hundreds of millions of dollars by claiming to provide food to students. [0], [1] We’d appreciate any actual help the federal government can provide, instead we get politicized press releases. [0] https://www.irs.gov/compliance/criminal-investigation/minneapolis-woman-pleads-guilty-in-250-million-feeding-our-future-fraud-scheme https://www.irs.gov/compliance/criminal-investigation/minnea... [1] https://www.justice.gov/usao-mn/pr/78th-defendant-charged-feeding-our-future-fraud-scheme https://www.justice.gov/usao-mn/pr/78th-defendant-charged-fe...
- deleted 10mo ago
  [deleted]
- msuniverse2026 10mo ago
  Wow, Najmo Ahmed, Said Ereg and Abdirashid Bixi Dool really did that?
  - blactuary 10mo ago
    What is this supposed to mean? Elaborate
- Ancapistani 10mo ago
  > As someone who lives in Minnesota, I wish the US Attorney’s office would provide data about the alleged Medicare fraud to the MN state government, like they have requested. Your governor has been subpoenaed by House due to accusations that he was aware of the fraud. I’m not surprised the state isn’t in the loop.
  - jjk166 10mo ago
    > Your governor has been subpoenaed by House due to accusations that he was aware of the fraud. No he hasn't.
    - Ancapistani 10mo ago
      Ah, you’re right. I got my Minnesota fraud investigations confused. https://nypost.com/2024/09/04/us-news/tim-walz-hit-with-house-subpoena-for-records-on-250m-minn-covid-fraud/ https://nypost.com/2024/09/04/us-news/tim-walz-hit-with-hous...
- cavisne 10mo ago
  The state government already failed with Feeding our Future and nothing has changed. The judge who "suggested" the payment of 250m is still serving his term, Jacob Frey (who's aide was indicted as part of it) is still in office, despite a literal vote rigging attempt to primary him. This should be handled at the federal level, even just to reduce the chances of another jury bribe attempt!

etchalon 10mo ago

I remember when I could trust Federal Prosecutors when they announced a crime had been committed.

mjmsmith 10mo ago

"Up to 100% of immigrants may be criminals."

kcplate 10mo ago
That statement is not factually incorrect. Neither is this statement: “Up to 100% of US citizens may be criminals”
- RobotToaster 10mo ago
  “Up to 100% of politicians may be criminals”
  - hereme888 10mo ago
    And we keep getting them elected. Imagine an election where candidates are liable for the veracity of every claim they make, with immediate penalties to their candidacy, and only verified facts are allowed in ads.
    - JumpCrisscross 10mo ago
      > Imagine an election where candidates are liable for the veracity of every claim they make, with immediate penalties to their candidacy, and only verified facts are allowed in ads You cease to have a democracy. The real power sits with the verifier in that system.
      - hereme888 10mo ago
        Important point.
- mjmsmith 10mo ago
  Yes.

germinalphrase 10mo ago

This $9B figure is not a serious number; it’s a narrative. The concrete allegations released so far peg the criminal impact closer to $250 million which, let’s be honest, is bad enough. As a Minnesotan, I’m appalled by the scale of these thefts, but glad they are actively investigating and charging these people for their crimes. If we had an honest and right minded political/justice system, we would be seeking to uncover and prosecute fraud through the nation.

hereme888 10mo ago
I know so many honest citizens who could have benefitted from a tiny fraction of that money. But it's been under investigation for 4.5 years as I understand, and the theoretical numbers thrown by politicians (hype/lies) are increasingly confusing. So what's the hope for any correction?
- germinalphrase 10mo ago
  I don’t hear many people in Minnesota trying to pretend the existence of these crimes is a hoax, fake news, etc. - so the hope is that we take our prosecutorial responsibilities seriously. Perhaps, so seriously that we set an expectation for the investigation and criminal prosecution of fraud and corruption vertically as well.
hippo22 10mo ago
It’s not like multi-billion Medicare / Medicaid fraud is unheard of. What makes you certain it’s not a serious number?
- germinalphrase 10mo ago
  To my understanding, the total spending is around $18B, so the allegation that 50% of all spending is fraudulent requires quite the sniff test. Additionally, large multi-billion dollar fraud causes are usually associated with large organizations (like a hospital or insurance system) which is not the case here. Could it be $9B+? Stick enough vague qualifying words around your presentation of the probable truth then yea, sure - at least $9B in spending could be fraudulent.

hukkle 10mo ago

[flagged]

asmodeuslucifer 10mo ago

Just a reminder, the poor don't do the billing. Businesses do.

silisili 10mo ago

I've not been keeping up with the news lately though I'd heard about this in passing. Was this tipped off from prior investigations wrapping up finally, or the current federal gov's hatred of Walz and Omar? I mainly ask because it makes me curious how much fraud exists in other states - basically are we picking on MN, or are they the exception?

derbOac 10mo ago
It seems people in this thread are getting downvoted for pointing out that your questions are reasonable. There's a lot of disputes between state and federal authorities about this. The 9B figure is being disputed, and there's a lot of claims that the state has been kept in the dark about it intentionally, with claims that MN GOP House members on fraud investigation committees have been purposely withholding information from the state, forwarding their information instead to federal prosecutors. These House members don't seem to deny this: https://kstp.com/kstp-news/top-news/house-fraud-committee-withholding-whistleblower-tips-from-dhs-investigators/ https://kstp.com/kstp-news/top-news/house-fraud-committee-wi... https://www.startribune.com/walz-says-theres-no-evidence-of-9b-in-fraud-exposing-rift-between-state-and-feds/601549681 https://www.startribune.com/walz-says-theres-no-evidence-of-... I'm not sure people are really disputing that the fraud happened. I think there are disagreements about the scope of it and about the way in which the investigation has been happening, and the motives for the way in which it has happened. Here's the whistleblower portal they set up earlier this year for example: https://mnhouserepublicans.com/whistleblower-portal/ https://mnhouserepublicans.com/whistleblower-portal/ They then forwarded tips to the federal DOJ and not the state. So are they picking on MN? I don't think the fraud, to the extent it is there, is them picking on them. The way in which this has unfolded might be.
- silisili 10mo ago
  Yeah, I usually shy away from these threads because any hint of politicism drives tribalism and people assuming whatever I said is on the enemy side, whatever that is. I just wanted to get more informed thoughts and opinions. In any event, thank you for the response and links.
deleted 10mo ago

azemetre 10mo ago

If Florida is anything to go by, the person responsible for this will run for Governor then Senator while winning both elections.

barelysapient 10mo ago

If true, it’s an eye watering amount for such a small state.

zoklet-enjoyer 10mo ago
Pretty average size population for a US state.

xtajv 10mo ago

Friendly reminder: The Mayo Clinic is located in Minnesota. The Mayo Clinic does a lot of groundbreaking research, new techniques, ultra-rare diseases... stuff that is super awesome, but nonetheless relatively unlikely to have established billing norms. I will also remind you that in most U.S. states, the largest employer in the state is either a university or Walmart. In Minnesota, it's Mayo.