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I used Proton at one point, but I realized that email is inherently insecure and any cloud storage can be E2EE if you encrypt the files yourself before uploadin
by hypeatei 10mo ago
I used Proton at one point, but I realized that email is inherently insecure and any cloud storage can be E2EE if you encrypt the files yourself before uploading (which you should)
It's nice to see that they're giving the finger to the Swiss government but ultimately it doesn't matter as many jurisdictions are mandating the same things.
- fsflover 10mo ago> any cloud storage can be E2EE if you encrypt the files yourself before uploading (which you should) Except the metadata I guess.
- mmooss 10mo agoAlso, the people with whom you email likely won't encrypt things on their end.
- fsflover 10mo agoDecentralized E2E instant messaging is the solution.
- rolph 10mo agoclient encryption is about keeping the MITM out of your fibre. if you are scared of spooks using metadata, that can be managed with some warwalking around cafes/campus, a wifi extender, a burner phone tether, and action in discretion. at that point WTF your doing had better be a noble cause, not a malediction.
- justsomehnguy 10mo ago> but I realized that email is inherently insecure I've always seen Proton benefits as a moot point because it's not E2E to the other side. You can encrypt all you want but as soon as you actually communicate with anyone (this is the email after all) you are now give all your messages to a third party often times without any encryption at all.
- zahlman 10mo agoThe recipient of the email is definitionally not "third party".
- smeej 10mo agoThe recipient's email service provider seems to be the "third party" at issue here.
- justsomehnguy 10mo agoYour second party isn't the recipient but just another MTA on the way. There are a lot of things what can leak your correspondence as is before it would land in someone's mailbox.
- smeej 10mo agoI do at least appreciate that emails from one Proton account to another Proton account are secured by default. It has made it much easier for me on the few occasions I've needed to send someone something securely but haven't wanted to walk them through setting up PGP. "Create a free Proton account" is a much easier process.
- Youden 10mo ago> but I realized that email is inherently insecure I'm curious why you think this? Take two parties that run their own email servers. One sends an email to the other. Their server opens a TLS connection to the other server and sends the email. This is E2EE, no? Given this is possible, is email truly *inherently* insecure? Or is the problem the centralization/sharing of email in free hosts?
- mingus88 10mo agoWhat’s to prevent one party from forwarding said email chain to any other account on Gmail? Like most issues of privacy, you can be absolutely perfect but all it takes is any of your contacts to make a common mistake and you are toast. If a system can only be secure if every participant acts perfectly, and goes through all the hoops required to host their own private infra securely, well, that seems inherently insecure to me. Email was designed for a different age. All the bolt-on improvements have not fundamentally changed this.
- cedws 10mo agoThe frontend decrypts the email content so they could just change the code at any point at siphon off the plaintext. Also, I don’t think people understand that PM is not fully encrypted. For example, email subjects are stored in plaintext and sent by the backend.