4 ms·

Now it won't be Beijing having coercive access to your data It'll be Larry Ellison, a slaver nation, and a PE surveillance focused firm having consensual acces

by yieldcrv 11mo ago

Now it won't be Beijing having coercive access to your data It'll be Larry Ellison, a slaver nation, and a PE surveillance focused firm having consensual access to your data! And the US government! we did it guys!

lateforwork 11mo ago
It is not access to our data that was the concern. It is manipulating the opinions of Americans by controlling the algorithms that determine what Americans see. How is that concern alleviated by this deal? It is not. And that's the problem with this deal. The algorithm is still controlled by China.
xp84 11mo ago
“Your information” was never the important thing. That’s a sideshow. The important thing is that controlling an algorithmic feed that is wildly popular amongst multiple generations of Americans means the CPC can control American public opinion at the touch of a button. Literally no country would allow a sworn adversary to do that. Why do you think China doesn’t allow Facebook or Twitter? And those aren’t even government-controlled American companies (sure, they’re subject to coercion, but not to the extent Chinese companies are).
- advisedwang 11mo ago
  OK so now "Larry Ellison, a slaver nation, and a PE surveillance focused firm" can "can control American public opinion at the touch of a button"? That seems just as bad.
  - ericmcer 11mo ago
    What do you mean by "a slaver nation"?
    - edaemon 11mo ago
      They're probably referring to MGX, one of the major investment groups. It's the UAE's state-owned investment fund.
    - HSO 11mo ago
      [flagged]
  - xp84 11mo ago
    Having 3 separate companies own it means one of them can’t just decide tonight to call whoever’s in charge and tell them to change it, or else they’re fired and lose everything. I do actually assert that these three entities are going to have divergent interests. Also I get that you don’t like Saudi, and yup we all know MBS had that journalist killed (totally F’d up), but overall they’re still not a government hostile to the West — especially when compared to several neighboring countries.
ericmcer 11mo ago
I am not excited about any of it, but like... Corporations in America can still refuse/fight government requests for data, they can disclose how many requests they get for the year, and there is judicial oversight on the requests. In China if the government makes a request for data the courts are not involved, the company has no ability to push back and they cannot disclose any info about government requests.
- NoGravitas 11mo ago
  US courts aren't exactly as independent as they used to be (and some of them, like national security and immigration courts never were). The difference between the US and China is at best a matter of procedure, not outcome.
- yieldcrv 11mo ago
  > Corporations in America can still refuse/fight government requests for data They can also voluntarily give it over, and as part of a contract for money

lateforwork 11mo ago

It is not access to our data that was the concern. It is manipulating the opinions of Americans by controlling the algorithms that determine what Americans see. How is that concern alleviated by this deal? It is not. And that's the problem with this deal. The algorithm is still controlled by China.

xp84 11mo ago

“Your information” was never the important thing. That’s a sideshow. The important thing is that controlling an algorithmic feed that is wildly popular amongst multiple generations of Americans means the CPC can control American public opinion at the touch of a button. Literally no country would allow a sworn adversary to do that. Why do you think China doesn’t allow Facebook or Twitter? And those aren’t even government-controlled American companies (sure, they’re subject to coercion, but not to the extent Chinese companies are).

advisedwang 11mo ago
OK so now "Larry Ellison, a slaver nation, and a PE surveillance focused firm" can "can control American public opinion at the touch of a button"? That seems just as bad.
- ericmcer 11mo ago
  What do you mean by "a slaver nation"?
  - edaemon 11mo ago
    They're probably referring to MGX, one of the major investment groups. It's the UAE's state-owned investment fund.
  - HSO 11mo ago
    [flagged]
- xp84 11mo ago
  Having 3 separate companies own it means one of them can’t just decide tonight to call whoever’s in charge and tell them to change it, or else they’re fired and lose everything. I do actually assert that these three entities are going to have divergent interests. Also I get that you don’t like Saudi, and yup we all know MBS had that journalist killed (totally F’d up), but overall they’re still not a government hostile to the West — especially when compared to several neighboring countries.

ericmcer 11mo ago

I am not excited about any of it, but like... Corporations in America can still refuse/fight government requests for data, they can disclose how many requests they get for the year, and there is judicial oversight on the requests. In China if the government makes a request for data the courts are not involved, the company has no ability to push back and they cannot disclose any info about government requests.

NoGravitas 11mo ago
US courts aren't exactly as independent as they used to be (and some of them, like national security and immigration courts never were). The difference between the US and China is at best a matter of procedure, not outcome.
yieldcrv 11mo ago
> Corporations in America can still refuse/fight government requests for data They can also voluntarily give it over, and as part of a contract for money