5 ms·

But this is true of any "producing" profession. Any time you're creating something and "putting it out there", there's going to be a huge stream of criticism fr

by AerieC 14y ago

But this is true of any "producing" profession. Any time you're creating something and "putting it out there", there's going to be a huge stream of criticism from every direction. Artists, writers, musicians, engineers, carpenters, etc.--all of their work is constantly under scrutiny by "the customer" and/or "the boss". Even non-producing professions have to deal with constant scrutiny of their performance and negativity. Salespeople might make one sale out of 20 attempts. Anyone in a medical profession is under extreme pressure to not make a mistake (and sometimes things go wrong even when you do everything right). There are very few professions who don't have to deal with the whole "focusing on the negative" thing (I can't actually think of any). It's pretty much a fact of life that if you want quality, you have to systematically eliminate your weak spots.

wreckimnaked 14y ago
> Artists, writers, musicians, engineers, carpenters You should draw a clear line between those professions. All of them are "producing" professions, but the first group (artists, writers, musicians) do not have to maintain the technical responsibility that the latter (engineers, carpenters, programmers) has to. This _technical responsibility_ brings a lot of the "negative" said on the article; actually, that's not "negative" it is "not good enough".
timwiseman 14y ago
You make great points, and I agree with everything except: systematically eliminate your weak spots. Sometimes that is what you need to do. But sometimes you are better off further enhancing your strengths to real excellence rather than bringing up your weaknesses to an acceptable level. Sometimes you can really sell your strengths, the things that make you stand out, and then work around the weaknesses by focusing on projects where they don't matter or by hiring an assistant/partner that can handle the areas you are weak in.
irishcoffee 14y ago
There is not a discrete "brokenness" to things like art or music. What you ship works or it doesn't work. Nobody knows or cares about the mountains you moved to produce what you did, they only care about the parts that don't work. Some industries are absolutely comparable, but a much smaller number than I think you're implying.
- Evbn 14y ago
  Ahem. http://www.psdisasters.com/ http://www.psdisasters.com/
  - irishcoffee 14y ago
    That would be the definition of 'doesn't work' I think.
jerf 14y ago
Salespeople make the sale sometimes. A doctor sees someone walk back in for their checkup who couldn't walk a week ago. A technical support person often says goodbye to a cheerful happy customer. Musicians may have to deal with criticism in the papers, but if they delist their phone number it's because of the fans, generally, not the critics. Actually that goes for almost all the creative industries. Developers have very little positive to go off of, and few professions have customers as discerning and grumpy as compilers. I wouldn't claim it's utterly unique, and everybody's got their own problems. But I don't think it's healthy or a good idea to ignore the problems we face because some people sometimes in some particular way have things even worse.
- steve8918 14y ago
  And if you're a programmer, sometimes you fix the big bug that a huge sale depends on, and sometimes you create a feature that your customers love. And, I take it you've never ever been in sales. What many companies do is put everyone's name on a board, and everyone's sales are complete public knowledge. Every time you make a sale, you walk up the board and add another tick to your column. It's a way to shame people into not being the worst salesperson in the company. And at the end of the month/quarter, you start all over again. My closest friend as well as my cousin went through this process, and quit after a couple of years of having their self-esteem completely trampled upon.
- lachyg 14y ago
  > Developers have very little positive to go off of I don't know that I agree. Red, Green, Refactor. That continuous moment of hitting green. Every time you solve that problem. Every time you strike a bug off the list. There are so many measurable accomplishments programmers make.
  - andyzweb 14y ago
    >that feel when you go from red to green. that is such a good feel
- bradleyland 14y ago
  This is one of those cases where I wish we could all walk a mile in each other's shoes. I can program. I am not "a" programmer. I've written a Ruby Gem or two, and I've even had some (very) small contributions accepted to widely used gems. I am really a project manager, but I recongize the value of understanding the tools that are used to build the projects I oversee. I can sell. I am not "a" salesman. I'm a good listener. I'm able to establish positive relationships relatively quickly. After meetings, I receive positive feedback from customers We're a small company, so I often end up sitting in on sales meetings. I find it's valuable to have a first-hand view in what customer objections are. I've walked a mile in both sets of shoes. I can tell you, unquestionably, that both careers can be equally frustrating. It's easy to center your world view around your own challenges, but to believe that yours are unique and more important than others crosses the line to narcissism. Sales people have it plenty rough. Not only are they constantly hammered by objections from customers, but any time they take those items back to the development team, they're met with similar apprehension about adding to the backlog. > But I don't think it's healthy or a good idea to ignore the problems we face because some people sometimes in some particular way have things even worse. Who suggested that we ignore the problems? The important part about recognizing someone else's challenges is that we should seek to support each other in both directions.

by AerieC 14y ago

wreckimnaked 14y ago

> Artists, writers, musicians, engineers, carpenters You should draw a clear line between those professions. All of them are "producing" professions, but the first group (artists, writers, musicians) do not have to maintain the technical responsibility that the latter (engineers, carpenters, programmers) has to. This _technical responsibility_ brings a lot of the "negative" said on the article; actually, that's not "negative" it is "not good enough".

timwiseman 14y ago

You make great points, and I agree with everything except: systematically eliminate your weak spots. Sometimes that is what you need to do. But sometimes you are better off further enhancing your strengths to real excellence rather than bringing up your weaknesses to an acceptable level. Sometimes you can really sell your strengths, the things that make you stand out, and then work around the weaknesses by focusing on projects where they don't matter or by hiring an assistant/partner that can handle the areas you are weak in.

irishcoffee 14y ago

There is not a discrete "brokenness" to things like art or music. What you ship works or it doesn't work. Nobody knows or cares about the mountains you moved to produce what you did, they only care about the parts that don't work. Some industries are absolutely comparable, but a much smaller number than I think you're implying.

Evbn 14y ago
Ahem. http://www.psdisasters.com/ http://www.psdisasters.com/
- irishcoffee 14y ago
  That would be the definition of 'doesn't work' I think.

jerf 14y ago

Salespeople make the sale sometimes. A doctor sees someone walk back in for their checkup who couldn't walk a week ago. A technical support person often says goodbye to a cheerful happy customer. Musicians may have to deal with criticism in the papers, but if they delist their phone number it's because of the fans, generally, not the critics. Actually that goes for almost all the creative industries. Developers have very little positive to go off of, and few professions have customers as discerning and grumpy as compilers. I wouldn't claim it's utterly unique, and everybody's got their own problems. But I don't think it's healthy or a good idea to ignore the problems we face because some people sometimes in some particular way have things even worse.

steve8918 14y ago
And if you're a programmer, sometimes you fix the big bug that a huge sale depends on, and sometimes you create a feature that your customers love. And, I take it you've never ever been in sales. What many companies do is put everyone's name on a board, and everyone's sales are complete public knowledge. Every time you make a sale, you walk up the board and add another tick to your column. It's a way to shame people into not being the worst salesperson in the company. And at the end of the month/quarter, you start all over again. My closest friend as well as my cousin went through this process, and quit after a couple of years of having their self-esteem completely trampled upon.
lachyg 14y ago
> Developers have very little positive to go off of I don't know that I agree. Red, Green, Refactor. That continuous moment of hitting green. Every time you solve that problem. Every time you strike a bug off the list. There are so many measurable accomplishments programmers make.
- andyzweb 14y ago
  >that feel when you go from red to green. that is such a good feel
bradleyland 14y ago
This is one of those cases where I wish we could all walk a mile in each other's shoes. I can program. I am not "a" programmer. I've written a Ruby Gem or two, and I've even had some (very) small contributions accepted to widely used gems. I am really a project manager, but I recongize the value of understanding the tools that are used to build the projects I oversee. I can sell. I am not "a" salesman. I'm a good listener. I'm able to establish positive relationships relatively quickly. After meetings, I receive positive feedback from customers We're a small company, so I often end up sitting in on sales meetings. I find it's valuable to have a first-hand view in what customer objections are. I've walked a mile in both sets of shoes. I can tell you, unquestionably, that both careers can be equally frustrating. It's easy to center your world view around your own challenges, but to believe that yours are unique and more important than others crosses the line to narcissism. Sales people have it plenty rough. Not only are they constantly hammered by objections from customers, but any time they take those items back to the development team, they're met with similar apprehension about adding to the backlog. > But I don't think it's healthy or a good idea to ignore the problems we face because some people sometimes in some particular way have things even worse. Who suggested that we ignore the problems? The important part about recognizing someone else's challenges is that we should seek to support each other in both directions.