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But Kobo is bad too. Try refunding a book. Their website sent me in neverending circles and still I could not find a way to refund. Their stuff requires some sp

But Kobo is bad too. Try refunding a book. Their website sent me in neverending circles and still I could not find a way to refund. Their stuff requires some specific reader or so. I don't quite remember the details, but I bought a book, thinking to avoid Amazon shit. Then I realized that their stuff sucks and I don't want to buy their blessed device or install special reader software. Also not DRM-free. So I wanted to refund, but couldn't. It is a very bad user experience. The only good experience you get from them is, if you go all in on their software/devices. Since I couldn't refund, I had to pirate the book as epub/pdf from elsewhere. I decided to never again buy anything from Kobo.

chocochunks 10mo ago
It's not super easy to refund digital goods in general with few exceptions like Steam. I have done it with Kobo but IIRC you have to chat with a CS rep or least you did when I did it. No where legit is DRM free for eBooks from the big publishers. You don't even have to use the Kobo app since they let you download the ACSM file and use it Adobe Digital Editions which could be used on a computer or ADE supported eReader like Pocketbook (or Kobo!). This has been the case since before they were even called Kobo! And if the publisher offers the book DRM free they just give you a DRM-free ePub instead of the ACSM file. These days, with the Calibre DeACSM and DeDRM plug-ins you don't even need ADE. It's also trivially easy to remove the DRM from the Kobo desktop app or their readers. It's way easier than Amazon and a way better experience with multiple routes to a DRM free file.
- zelphirkalt 10mo ago
  This ACSM file fiddling was too much of a hassle. I used to DeDRM ebooks from Amazon (also using Calibre), but I didn't know about DeACSM. I just want an epub or pdf file. I don't want their reinventing the wheel to somehow gatekeep content bs file formats. This is a clear sign for me, that they do not have my best interest at heart. Their website didn't guide me towards a callable phone number or give me an actual e-mail address I could write to. Instead I went back and forth between chatbot and docs and webpages, without success. It is obvious to me, that they want as little actual human in the loop as possible. Real shitty experience, while my money is already gone and I am trying to get it back. Easier to give up and just download an acceptable version elsewhere. Not going through all that hassle to use their platform, which doesn't value me as a customer anyway.
  - chocochunks 10mo ago
    Using the Kobo desktop app is almost identical to Kindle with regards to DeDRM. You open app, you download book in app, you open Calibre, then here is where it changes, you click the Obok plugin on the Calibre toolbar, find book and import and get an ePub and you don't even have to convert it! ACSM is Adobe's crap and the same thing you'd have use for Google Play Books and a few others. It's again another slight step change where you have to open the ACSM with ADE to get the book in the first place. WTF Adobe did it that way, IDK but they did.
WolfeReader 10mo ago
Bad take. Kobo lets you know which books have DRM and which don't. And even with DRM, you can get them into Adobe Digital Editions and load them on to basically any e-reader. (Maybe not Kindle since it won't open DRM'd ePubs.) I buy like 60% of my ebooks from Kobo and have never owned a Kobo-brand ereader.
- zelphirkalt 10mo ago
  In the end that's also shitty. I don't want to "get them into Adobe Digital Editions". I don't want to have to use Adobe shitware, and I don't want their special formats. Just give me the epub or pdf. Also their website treated me like shit and they have no good way to contact anyone visible on their website. Kobo is not it. Maybe they once were, at some point before I tried using them. I am not gonna support them after my experience with them.
  - chocochunks 10mo ago
    As I explained above, you can get the ePubs directly if you just used the free Kobo desktop app. I think you need to ask yourself why you were OK using the Amazon Kindle app for DeDRM but Kobo or Adobe's was a huge burden. Really Bizzare IMO.
    - zelphirkalt 10mo ago
      Do you know the concept of time passing? Could it be possible, that my stance regarding ebooks changed over time, and that I have become more aware of the associated issues? Hmmmm. What is bizarre here is you posting these comments, trying to invalidate my all around terrible experience with Kobo. Your account is green behind the ears and all your comments are on Kobo, Kobo, Kobo. Go figure.
      - chocochunks 10mo ago
        I like eBooks, I've had eReaders from Sony, Kobo, Amazon and Boox, bought from Amazon, Kobo, Google Play, and several of the smaller players like Baen. Outside of the completely DRM-free places like Baen which are very limited in selection, Kobo is IMO the easiest to get a DRM-free file in the end. Your posts were IMO very off the mark that it got me to comment. I'd rather people try Kobo than keep feeding the Amazon machine.

chocochunks 10mo ago

It's not super easy to refund digital goods in general with few exceptions like Steam. I have done it with Kobo but IIRC you have to chat with a CS rep or least you did when I did it. No where legit is DRM free for eBooks from the big publishers. You don't even have to use the Kobo app since they let you download the ACSM file and use it Adobe Digital Editions which could be used on a computer or ADE supported eReader like Pocketbook (or Kobo!). This has been the case since before they were even called Kobo! And if the publisher offers the book DRM free they just give you a DRM-free ePub instead of the ACSM file. These days, with the Calibre DeACSM and DeDRM plug-ins you don't even need ADE. It's also trivially easy to remove the DRM from the Kobo desktop app or their readers. It's way easier than Amazon and a way better experience with multiple routes to a DRM free file.

zelphirkalt 10mo ago
This ACSM file fiddling was too much of a hassle. I used to DeDRM ebooks from Amazon (also using Calibre), but I didn't know about DeACSM. I just want an epub or pdf file. I don't want their reinventing the wheel to somehow gatekeep content bs file formats. This is a clear sign for me, that they do not have my best interest at heart. Their website didn't guide me towards a callable phone number or give me an actual e-mail address I could write to. Instead I went back and forth between chatbot and docs and webpages, without success. It is obvious to me, that they want as little actual human in the loop as possible. Real shitty experience, while my money is already gone and I am trying to get it back. Easier to give up and just download an acceptable version elsewhere. Not going through all that hassle to use their platform, which doesn't value me as a customer anyway.
- chocochunks 10mo ago
  Using the Kobo desktop app is almost identical to Kindle with regards to DeDRM. You open app, you download book in app, you open Calibre, then here is where it changes, you click the Obok plugin on the Calibre toolbar, find book and import and get an ePub and you don't even have to convert it! ACSM is Adobe's crap and the same thing you'd have use for Google Play Books and a few others. It's again another slight step change where you have to open the ACSM with ADE to get the book in the first place. WTF Adobe did it that way, IDK but they did.

WolfeReader 10mo ago

Bad take. Kobo lets you know which books have DRM and which don't. And even with DRM, you can get them into Adobe Digital Editions and load them on to basically any e-reader. (Maybe not Kindle since it won't open DRM'd ePubs.) I buy like 60% of my ebooks from Kobo and have never owned a Kobo-brand ereader.

zelphirkalt 10mo ago
In the end that's also shitty. I don't want to "get them into Adobe Digital Editions". I don't want to have to use Adobe shitware, and I don't want their special formats. Just give me the epub or pdf. Also their website treated me like shit and they have no good way to contact anyone visible on their website. Kobo is not it. Maybe they once were, at some point before I tried using them. I am not gonna support them after my experience with them.
- chocochunks 10mo ago
  As I explained above, you can get the ePubs directly if you just used the free Kobo desktop app. I think you need to ask yourself why you were OK using the Amazon Kindle app for DeDRM but Kobo or Adobe's was a huge burden. Really Bizzare IMO.
  - zelphirkalt 10mo ago
    Do you know the concept of time passing? Could it be possible, that my stance regarding ebooks changed over time, and that I have become more aware of the associated issues? Hmmmm. What is bizarre here is you posting these comments, trying to invalidate my all around terrible experience with Kobo. Your account is green behind the ears and all your comments are on Kobo, Kobo, Kobo. Go figure.
    - chocochunks 10mo ago
      I like eBooks, I've had eReaders from Sony, Kobo, Amazon and Boox, bought from Amazon, Kobo, Google Play, and several of the smaller players like Baen. Outside of the completely DRM-free places like Baen which are very limited in selection, Kobo is IMO the easiest to get a DRM-free file in the end. Your posts were IMO very off the mark that it got me to comment. I'd rather people try Kobo than keep feeding the Amazon machine.