5 ms·

This is not a case of a school or librarian choosing books. This is a case of some external party forcing them to remove books.

School-Cotton 11mo ago
The state is not an "external party" to a school. Schools are run by the state; they are not sovereign or independent entities empowered to make their own decisions.
- IAmBroom 11mo ago
  And the state is a function of the voting electorate, so by your logic anyone who casts a vote is effectively a school supervisor... yet some of them are mysteriously forbidden from stepping foot on school property.
m00x 11mo ago
Can you back this up with a source?
- macintux 11mo ago
  https://www.metroweekly.com/2024/06/an-idaho-library-goes-adults-only-will-no-longer-admit-minors/ https://www.metroweekly.com/2024/06/an-idaho-library-goes-ad...
  - m00x 11mo ago
    This isn't a school?
    - macintux 11mo ago
      That's true. I provided you with a link to the text to the Florida bill that does impact school libraries in another thread.
- mikestew 11mo ago
  The FAQ from that same site? https://pen.org/book-bans/book-bans-frequently-asked-questions/ https://pen.org/book-bans/book-bans-frequently-asked-questio...
  - m00x 11mo ago
    Not exactly a ban, as per their own source.
    - mikestew 11mo ago
      That link answered the question you asked, I’ll presume you are just being argumentative, and starting to border sea lioning.
like_any_other 11mo ago
Why are elected officials and parents "external parties" to the education of their children, while librarians are.. "internal"? What gives one, but not the other, the moral authority to decide what kind of education to give children (compelled by law to attend public school)?
- spicymaki 11mo ago
  Librarians actually read the books and are experts in the curation of the books. It is not actually about moral authority it is about expertise. Special accommodations are made for students. Parents can ask for their child not to participate in activities they deem inappropriate. I see this happen all of the time during Halloween events. It would be nice if Christian conservatives would do the same.
  - like_any_other 11mo ago
    > It is not actually about moral authority it is about expertise. I sure am glad that there is an Objectively Correct set of books children should be exposed to, unaffected by issues of identity, politics, or morality, and it's just a matter of applying dispassionate expertise to discover it. And of course, that this is what librarians are doing, and not letting their personal beliefs interfere.
    - amanaplanacanal 11mo ago
      It sounds like you are trying to say there is no such thing as expertise. These people have degrees in education and/or library science. Why bother going to university to learn anything then?
      - like_any_other 11mo ago
        No, I am saying there is no such objectively correct set of books. Hiding behind "expertise" doesn't make educational decisions less political. Children can be indoctrinated more, or less, "expertly". But then everyone knows this, and I don't for a second believe you or anyone else thinks school librarians make decisions entirely based on universal (i.e. not specific to any country, ethnic group, or political persuasion) dispassionate principles. You're only pretending to to win an argument, then you'll go right back to believing the opposite, and call for libraries to be "decolonized" [1]. I guess we're lucky libraries are expert and objective now, unlike how they were 3 years ago when they were biased and needed decolonizing. Except the ones that haven't decolonized yet, of course. Those librarians' expertise and judgment can still be questioned. [1] https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/abs/narrative-expansions/decolonising-library-collections-contemporary-issues-practical-steps-and-examples-from-london-school-of-economics/EAB1BBFA4523DF25292730059B624323 https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/abs/narrative-expansion...

School-Cotton 11mo ago

The state is not an "external party" to a school. Schools are run by the state; they are not sovereign or independent entities empowered to make their own decisions.

IAmBroom 11mo ago
And the state is a function of the voting electorate, so by your logic anyone who casts a vote is effectively a school supervisor... yet some of them are mysteriously forbidden from stepping foot on school property.

m00x 11mo ago

Can you back this up with a source?

macintux 11mo ago
https://www.metroweekly.com/2024/06/an-idaho-library-goes-adults-only-will-no-longer-admit-minors/ https://www.metroweekly.com/2024/06/an-idaho-library-goes-ad...
- m00x 11mo ago
  This isn't a school?
  - macintux 11mo ago
    That's true. I provided you with a link to the text to the Florida bill that does impact school libraries in another thread.
mikestew 11mo ago
The FAQ from that same site? https://pen.org/book-bans/book-bans-frequently-asked-questions/ https://pen.org/book-bans/book-bans-frequently-asked-questio...
- m00x 11mo ago
  Not exactly a ban, as per their own source.
  - mikestew 11mo ago
    That link answered the question you asked, I’ll presume you are just being argumentative, and starting to border sea lioning.

like_any_other 11mo ago

Why are elected officials and parents "external parties" to the education of their children, while librarians are.. "internal"? What gives one, but not the other, the moral authority to decide what kind of education to give children (compelled by law to attend public school)?

spicymaki 11mo ago
Librarians actually read the books and are experts in the curation of the books. It is not actually about moral authority it is about expertise. Special accommodations are made for students. Parents can ask for their child not to participate in activities they deem inappropriate. I see this happen all of the time during Halloween events. It would be nice if Christian conservatives would do the same.
- like_any_other 11mo ago
  > It is not actually about moral authority it is about expertise. I sure am glad that there is an Objectively Correct set of books children should be exposed to, unaffected by issues of identity, politics, or morality, and it's just a matter of applying dispassionate expertise to discover it. And of course, that this is what librarians are doing, and not letting their personal beliefs interfere.
  - amanaplanacanal 11mo ago
    It sounds like you are trying to say there is no such thing as expertise. These people have degrees in education and/or library science. Why bother going to university to learn anything then?
    - like_any_other 11mo ago
      No, I am saying there is no such objectively correct set of books. Hiding behind "expertise" doesn't make educational decisions less political. Children can be indoctrinated more, or less, "expertly". But then everyone knows this, and I don't for a second believe you or anyone else thinks school librarians make decisions entirely based on universal (i.e. not specific to any country, ethnic group, or political persuasion) dispassionate principles. You're only pretending to to win an argument, then you'll go right back to believing the opposite, and call for libraries to be "decolonized" [1]. I guess we're lucky libraries are expert and objective now, unlike how they were 3 years ago when they were biased and needed decolonizing. Except the ones that haven't decolonized yet, of course. Those librarians' expertise and judgment can still be questioned. [1] https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/abs/narrative-expansions/decolonising-library-collections-contemporary-issues-practical-steps-and-examples-from-london-school-of-economics/EAB1BBFA4523DF25292730059B624323 https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/abs/narrative-expansion...