4 ms·

Some people actually have mouths to feed. Some people don't have the luxury of preaching for whatever ideals they have without a need to release anything in 10

Some people actually have mouths to feed. Some people don't have the luxury of preaching for whatever ideals they have without a need to release anything in 10 years; that doesn't make their products "garbage".

Johanx64 10mo ago
> Some people don't have the luxury of preaching for whatever ideals they have without a need to release anything in 10 years Wait, how did they gain this "luxury"? Are they trust fund babies or something? Or did they earn their big stash of money by producing "garbage" and now retroactively are preaching ideals that they themselves didn't follow or what? This line of "criticism" doesn't make any sense whatsoever. After all both in question live off money they've made and/or are making from their (arguably) uncompromised quality work. That is to say their uncompromised quality work has directly resulted in them being able to not release anything for close to 10 years, and practice their ideals in software they ship even if the "shipping" takes 10 years to do. It would be more fair to say, that most people don't have the craftmanship and skill (and not the luxury) to be able to produce high quality work and software that enables them the so called "luxury".
- Capricorn2481 10mo ago
  Just to be clear, your comments are implying everyone who doesn't write everything from scratch is shipping garbage. Ignoring how misinformed that opinion is, I would say The Witness is a very compromised game. Maybe if less focus went into the technical aspect, it could've been better.
  - Johanx64 10mo ago
    You are implying that my comment is implying something about "writing everything from scratch", it is not implying anything of the sort. > Ignoring how misinformed that opinion is You are making up some random opinion (that I supposedly have, but that are nowhere to be found in what I wrote).
- AndriyKunitsyn 10mo ago
  >Or did they earn their big stash of money by producing "garbage" and now retroactively are preaching ideals that they themselves didn't follow or what? In the JBlow case - yes, he made his money using C++. So far, he hasn't shown that using Jai is particularly productive for software engineering.
  - Johanx64 10mo ago
    > So far, he hasn't shown that using Jai is particularly productive for software engineering. And how would he do that exactly to whatever ungodly standards you are setting for the man? Many people have criticized C++ in past (which is very easy to do), yet he's practicing what he's preaching in the most direct way humanly possible, he's both (1) designed and implemented a new programming language (that has directly addressed most of the issues), whilst (2) also making a complete non-trivial game in the newly designed language at the same time. His games have always taken long time to make, and now he's making game + engine + programming language. At the same frigging time! The only "luxury" JBlow has is that he's an exceptional individual and you're not. He has rare combination of ability, perseverance and work ethic, and by all accounts most people are neither of those things at once. Most criticisms 99% of time are either misrepresentitive, misinformed jealousy or something to do with politics. I have no issue with personally acknowledging that some rare individuals are simply way better than me. And to prevent sounding like a gushing-fanboy, I suspect that his newest game won't sell very well, because his first two games have atleast something to appeal to general public (either visuals of Witness or time travel mechanics (somewhat novel at the time) of Braid) while this game doesn't appear to have the same draw. This game has too much of a generic-sokoban puzzler vibe to it to appeal to the general public who aren't already ardent puzzler fans (and are there enough of those and can he reach enough of them? etc). And the trailer doesn't help to change this perception.
    - AndriyKunitsyn 10mo ago
      >And how would he do that exactly to whatever ungodly standards you are setting for the man? By providing a result in a way that will be superior to the current status quo. Maybe there will be results, but right now there are none. I have no idea why you are so invested. I don't care about the man's personality or whatever qualities he has. I look at what he does, and so far, he spent 10 years making a game that you yourself admit won't be even that good. Of course, you could say that changing the course of the industry not possible in one man's lifetime, so you'll need to gather round more people to get the action going, but this tone actually prevents you from starting a Jai revolution.

Johanx64 10mo ago

> Some people don't have the luxury of preaching for whatever ideals they have without a need to release anything in 10 years Wait, how did they gain this "luxury"? Are they trust fund babies or something? Or did they earn their big stash of money by producing "garbage" and now retroactively are preaching ideals that they themselves didn't follow or what? This line of "criticism" doesn't make any sense whatsoever. After all both in question live off money they've made and/or are making from their (arguably) uncompromised quality work. That is to say their uncompromised quality work has directly resulted in them being able to not release anything for close to 10 years, and practice their ideals in software they ship even if the "shipping" takes 10 years to do. It would be more fair to say, that most people don't have the craftmanship and skill (and not the luxury) to be able to produce high quality work and software that enables them the so called "luxury".

Capricorn2481 10mo ago
Just to be clear, your comments are implying everyone who doesn't write everything from scratch is shipping garbage. Ignoring how misinformed that opinion is, I would say The Witness is a very compromised game. Maybe if less focus went into the technical aspect, it could've been better.
- Johanx64 10mo ago
  You are implying that my comment is implying something about "writing everything from scratch", it is not implying anything of the sort. > Ignoring how misinformed that opinion is You are making up some random opinion (that I supposedly have, but that are nowhere to be found in what I wrote).
AndriyKunitsyn 10mo ago
>Or did they earn their big stash of money by producing "garbage" and now retroactively are preaching ideals that they themselves didn't follow or what? In the JBlow case - yes, he made his money using C++. So far, he hasn't shown that using Jai is particularly productive for software engineering.
- Johanx64 10mo ago
  > So far, he hasn't shown that using Jai is particularly productive for software engineering. And how would he do that exactly to whatever ungodly standards you are setting for the man? Many people have criticized C++ in past (which is very easy to do), yet he's practicing what he's preaching in the most direct way humanly possible, he's both (1) designed and implemented a new programming language (that has directly addressed most of the issues), whilst (2) also making a complete non-trivial game in the newly designed language at the same time. His games have always taken long time to make, and now he's making game + engine + programming language. At the same frigging time! The only "luxury" JBlow has is that he's an exceptional individual and you're not. He has rare combination of ability, perseverance and work ethic, and by all accounts most people are neither of those things at once. Most criticisms 99% of time are either misrepresentitive, misinformed jealousy or something to do with politics. I have no issue with personally acknowledging that some rare individuals are simply way better than me. And to prevent sounding like a gushing-fanboy, I suspect that his newest game won't sell very well, because his first two games have atleast something to appeal to general public (either visuals of Witness or time travel mechanics (somewhat novel at the time) of Braid) while this game doesn't appear to have the same draw. This game has too much of a generic-sokoban puzzler vibe to it to appeal to the general public who aren't already ardent puzzler fans (and are there enough of those and can he reach enough of them? etc). And the trailer doesn't help to change this perception.
  - AndriyKunitsyn 10mo ago
    >And how would he do that exactly to whatever ungodly standards you are setting for the man? By providing a result in a way that will be superior to the current status quo. Maybe there will be results, but right now there are none. I have no idea why you are so invested. I don't care about the man's personality or whatever qualities he has. I look at what he does, and so far, he spent 10 years making a game that you yourself admit won't be even that good. Of course, you could say that changing the course of the industry not possible in one man's lifetime, so you'll need to gather round more people to get the action going, but this tone actually prevents you from starting a Jai revolution.