4 ms·

> I learned that at least in Texas all plates are made by minimally paid prisoners Lol, wasn't slavery outlawed in the US, or were some states still allowed to

> I learned that at least in Texas all plates are made by minimally paid prisoners Lol, wasn't slavery outlawed in the US, or were some states still allowed to keep it? That's absolutely bananas if true.

dogleash 11mo ago
Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
- rimunroe 11mo ago
  For anyone unaware, that is nearly[1] the entirety of the text of the 13th Amendment to the US Constitution from 1865. This exception is rather (in)famous. I remember being quizzed on it in an elementary or middle school history or social studies class. [1] the only excluded bit is the followup "Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation." Without this, the power to enforce the 13th Amendment would be left up to the states due to the 10th Amendment ("The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."), which would have slightly useless given the whole war that had just been fought over some states wanting to keep slavery.
grimgrin 11mo ago
Since you didn't know about for-profit prisons, here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_prison https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_prison
- embedding-shape 11mo ago
  I'm very well aware of private prisons, but I didn't know they also exploited essentially f̵o̵r̵c̵e̵d̵free labour, that one was new to me. Apparently in the constitution and everything. Remind me again why some people believe America to be "the land of the free"?
  - deleted 11mo ago
    [deleted]
- opo 11mo ago
  Not sure why you are bringing up private prisons. Private prisons are a tiny percentage of federal prisons and prison labor is used throughout the USA.
Aurornis 11mo ago
To be clear, the prisoners aren’t literally forced to do this work. It’s a job they can choose to apply for and do while in prison. (EDIT: In my state, it might be different in other states) The contention is about how much they’re paid per hour.
- embedding-shape 11mo ago
  > To be clear, the prisoners aren’t literally forced to do this work. Not 100% true it seems, but happy for someone else to correct me. > Prison labor in the US is mostly optional - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_labor_in_the_United_States#Modern_prison_labor_systems https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_labor_in_the_United_Stat...
  - qingcharles 11mo ago
    It's technically optional in most institutions, but not practically optional. For instance, a lot of labor can reduce your sentence, can give you better housing and can enable you to afford things on commissary you might need (e.g. phone time, hygiene products etc).
    - porridgeraisin 11mo ago
      Sounds like optional to me. With benefits for exercising the option.
    - kurtis_reed 11mo ago
      Ok so optional then
- rimunroe 11mo ago
  >To be clear, the prisoners aren’t literally forced to do this work. It’s a job they can choose to apply for and do while in prison. Sorry, do you have a source for that? The requirement to work is a major point of contention, and a very quick check with this[1] directly contradicts your claim in the federal system: "Sentenced inmates are required to work if they are medically able. Institution work assignments include employment in areas like food service or the warehouse, or work as an inmate orderly, plumber, painter, or groundskeeper. Inmates earn 12¢ to 40¢ per hour for these work assignments." [1] https://www.bop.gov/inmates/custody_and_care/work_programs.jsp https://www.bop.gov/inmates/custody_and_care/work_programs.j...
SirSavary 11mo ago
> The Thirteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution abolished slavery and involuntary servitude, except as punishment for a crime. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirteenth_Amendment_to_the_Un...
paulddraper 11mo ago
No, Thirteenth Amendment permits it as punishment for a crime. This a good reminder to all Americans to read the Constitution. The amount of bizarre understandings (not necessarily this one) that I see is very high.

dogleash 11mo ago

Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

rimunroe 11mo ago
For anyone unaware, that is nearly[1] the entirety of the text of the 13th Amendment to the US Constitution from 1865. This exception is rather (in)famous. I remember being quizzed on it in an elementary or middle school history or social studies class. [1] the only excluded bit is the followup "Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation." Without this, the power to enforce the 13th Amendment would be left up to the states due to the 10th Amendment ("The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."), which would have slightly useless given the whole war that had just been fought over some states wanting to keep slavery.

grimgrin 11mo ago

Since you didn't know about for-profit prisons, here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_prison https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_prison

embedding-shape 11mo ago
I'm very well aware of private prisons, but I didn't know they also exploited essentially f̵o̵r̵c̵e̵d̵free labour, that one was new to me. Apparently in the constitution and everything. Remind me again why some people believe America to be "the land of the free"?
- deleted 11mo ago
  [deleted]
opo 11mo ago
Not sure why you are bringing up private prisons. Private prisons are a tiny percentage of federal prisons and prison labor is used throughout the USA.

Aurornis 11mo ago

To be clear, the prisoners aren’t literally forced to do this work. It’s a job they can choose to apply for and do while in prison. (EDIT: In my state, it might be different in other states) The contention is about how much they’re paid per hour.

embedding-shape 11mo ago
> To be clear, the prisoners aren’t literally forced to do this work. Not 100% true it seems, but happy for someone else to correct me. > Prison labor in the US is mostly optional - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_labor_in_the_United_States#Modern_prison_labor_systems https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_labor_in_the_United_Stat...
- qingcharles 11mo ago
  It's technically optional in most institutions, but not practically optional. For instance, a lot of labor can reduce your sentence, can give you better housing and can enable you to afford things on commissary you might need (e.g. phone time, hygiene products etc).
  - porridgeraisin 11mo ago
    Sounds like optional to me. With benefits for exercising the option.
  - kurtis_reed 11mo ago
    Ok so optional then
rimunroe 11mo ago
>To be clear, the prisoners aren’t literally forced to do this work. It’s a job they can choose to apply for and do while in prison. Sorry, do you have a source for that? The requirement to work is a major point of contention, and a very quick check with this[1] directly contradicts your claim in the federal system: "Sentenced inmates are required to work if they are medically able. Institution work assignments include employment in areas like food service or the warehouse, or work as an inmate orderly, plumber, painter, or groundskeeper. Inmates earn 12¢ to 40¢ per hour for these work assignments." [1] https://www.bop.gov/inmates/custody_and_care/work_programs.jsp https://www.bop.gov/inmates/custody_and_care/work_programs.j...

SirSavary 11mo ago

> The Thirteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution abolished slavery and involuntary servitude, except as punishment for a crime. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirteenth_Amendment_to_the_Un...

paulddraper 11mo ago

No, Thirteenth Amendment permits it as punishment for a crime. This a good reminder to all Americans to read the Constitution. The amount of bizarre understandings (not necessarily this one) that I see is very high.