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The real real problem are shameless shitheads that will abuse anything to any length the run scams or malware distributions. "Yes support tech, please understa

The real real problem are shameless shitheads that will abuse anything to any length the run scams or malware distributions. "Yes support tech, please understand my child just died of cancer and my wife in a car accident last week and the only pictures I have of them are on my bitcoin4free@gmail.com account!" Google probably also bans thousands of accounts a day. And suddenly every single one of them needs a full human appeal review. Because jamming up the system is (short term) beneficial to these shitheads.

dylan604 10mo ago
I know you're just trying to pull something out of thin air that sounds plausible, but...this would be simple to prove with a request for valid death certificates, marriage license, and a birth certificate to prove you were married, the child is yours, and that both are in fact deceased. Oh, and of course, you'll have to prove who you are as well.
- deleted 10mo ago
  [deleted]
- sceptic123 10mo ago
  It may be simple enough to prove, but that is an uncomfortable ask if those circumstances are genuine.
  - dylan604 10mo ago
    If these were truly the only copies of photos as in the example, then you'd probably be willing though.
- tuetuopay 10mo ago
  Given the (rightful) outcry about handing out your IDs to private corporations in "safety"'s name, are you really suggesting providing documents even more specific about you? We're all worried about identity fraud, and such documents are actually used to apply for an id in some countries!
  - dylan604 10mo ago
    To be sure, it would suck trying to do all of this for some web service. I've had to do it for something more substantial like insurance. I wouldn't think this kind of thing should be a scan and upload to a cloud bucket. At this point, we've reached a human, and should be able to deliver physical documents to said human
matheusmoreira 10mo ago
Apple is worth trillions of dollars. Just treat it as a business expense. https://www.bitsaboutmoney.com/archive/optimal-amount-of-fraud/ https://www.bitsaboutmoney.com/archive/optimal-amount-of-fra...
EvanAnderson 10mo ago
Dealing with fraudsters should be baked into the cost of doing business for these megacorps. A smaller business couldn't get away with this kind of "support". The largest companies should be held to the same standard. The only way this is going to change is if shareholders hold executives accountable. Consumer protection regulation with real "teeth" that impacts the bottom line will bring angry shareholders to the table very quickly.
- II2II 10mo ago
  Then you better be prepared to pay for it, and still expect cases where things go wrong. The problem with having support dealing with problems like this is that fraudsters will figure out how to manipulate it, while honest people will still encounter these problems. The easier you make it for honest people to resolve these disputes, the easier you will make it for fraudsters since it would involve yet another avenue for them to exploit. Plus the whole process will become more expensive, which someone has to pay for.
  - Workaccount2 10mo ago
    This is exactly how SIM swapping scams worked. Scammers would call into Teleco customer service with panic and tears to trick the support person into moving your phone number onto their device, and then they drain your SMS 2FA accounts.
- snowwrestler 10mo ago
  > Dealing with fraudsters should be baked into the cost of doing business for these megacorps. A smaller business couldn't get away with this kind of "support". The largest companies should be held to the same standard. It is already baked into the costs in business models of big companies. And they are pretty good at it, actually; we’re talking about one high-profile case, and it’s not the only one, but it is rare enough that such stories are still newsworthy. The standard that people want, though, is absolute certainty: zero errors that affect real customers, a 0% false positive rate. The scale is in fact a challenge. If a small business has a 0.00001% false positive rate, they will affect approximately zero of their customers. For Apple, managing billions of accounts, that same false positive rate would affect hundreds of real customers every day.
qingcharles 10mo ago
I can't even get into my Google account even though I have the username, password and recovery email, and all the emails are CC'd to the recovery email, because Google turned on 2FA without any notice and it needs a text from a number I no longer own.
- nottorp 10mo ago
  I have access to the recovery email for a secondary google account but it didn't have a phone number attached so I lost it when they turned on 2FA.
  - qingcharles 10mo ago
    Normally I resolve these things by buying all the executive phone numbers and working my way through the phonebook, but Google is the one I've had no success on with this so far.
    - nottorp 10mo ago
      I wasn't using it for much so I just took it as a warning I should get off my ass and de google. ... which hasn't happened, but maybe once every 3 months I move another service to logging in with an email on my personal domain ...
      - brewdad 10mo ago
        I recently ran into a situation where a service I absolutely must use and has no alternative (think government provided service) would only accept a Gmail domain for registration. Any other domain would fail registration with no useful error message. This really shouldn't be allowed in this day and age but I'm effectively powerless to change it. DeGoogling is hard.
        qingcharles 10mo ago
        I had to sign up with a major SMTP provider last year and they wouldn't accept my regular email for login, which is on a very regular normal domain. They asked me to sign up with a major email like gmail. I was luckily in a position to refuse, and complained until they updated their rules.
gosub100 10mo ago
I don't call anyone a shithead for stealing from any of the major tech companies. They are stealing from us all the time.
venturecruelty 10mo ago
"We can't be fair or impartial because scammers lol. Sorry!"

dylan604 10mo ago

I know you're just trying to pull something out of thin air that sounds plausible, but...this would be simple to prove with a request for valid death certificates, marriage license, and a birth certificate to prove you were married, the child is yours, and that both are in fact deceased. Oh, and of course, you'll have to prove who you are as well.

deleted 10mo ago
[deleted]
sceptic123 10mo ago
It may be simple enough to prove, but that is an uncomfortable ask if those circumstances are genuine.
- dylan604 10mo ago
  If these were truly the only copies of photos as in the example, then you'd probably be willing though.
tuetuopay 10mo ago
Given the (rightful) outcry about handing out your IDs to private corporations in "safety"'s name, are you really suggesting providing documents even more specific about you? We're all worried about identity fraud, and such documents are actually used to apply for an id in some countries!
- dylan604 10mo ago
  To be sure, it would suck trying to do all of this for some web service. I've had to do it for something more substantial like insurance. I wouldn't think this kind of thing should be a scan and upload to a cloud bucket. At this point, we've reached a human, and should be able to deliver physical documents to said human

matheusmoreira 10mo ago

Apple is worth trillions of dollars. Just treat it as a business expense. https://www.bitsaboutmoney.com/archive/optimal-amount-of-fraud/ https://www.bitsaboutmoney.com/archive/optimal-amount-of-fra...

EvanAnderson 10mo ago

Dealing with fraudsters should be baked into the cost of doing business for these megacorps. A smaller business couldn't get away with this kind of "support". The largest companies should be held to the same standard. The only way this is going to change is if shareholders hold executives accountable. Consumer protection regulation with real "teeth" that impacts the bottom line will bring angry shareholders to the table very quickly.

II2II 10mo ago
Then you better be prepared to pay for it, and still expect cases where things go wrong. The problem with having support dealing with problems like this is that fraudsters will figure out how to manipulate it, while honest people will still encounter these problems. The easier you make it for honest people to resolve these disputes, the easier you will make it for fraudsters since it would involve yet another avenue for them to exploit. Plus the whole process will become more expensive, which someone has to pay for.
- Workaccount2 10mo ago
  This is exactly how SIM swapping scams worked. Scammers would call into Teleco customer service with panic and tears to trick the support person into moving your phone number onto their device, and then they drain your SMS 2FA accounts.
snowwrestler 10mo ago
> Dealing with fraudsters should be baked into the cost of doing business for these megacorps. A smaller business couldn't get away with this kind of "support". The largest companies should be held to the same standard. It is already baked into the costs in business models of big companies. And they are pretty good at it, actually; we’re talking about one high-profile case, and it’s not the only one, but it is rare enough that such stories are still newsworthy. The standard that people want, though, is absolute certainty: zero errors that affect real customers, a 0% false positive rate. The scale is in fact a challenge. If a small business has a 0.00001% false positive rate, they will affect approximately zero of their customers. For Apple, managing billions of accounts, that same false positive rate would affect hundreds of real customers every day.

qingcharles 10mo ago

I can't even get into my Google account even though I have the username, password and recovery email, and all the emails are CC'd to the recovery email, because Google turned on 2FA without any notice and it needs a text from a number I no longer own.

nottorp 10mo ago
I have access to the recovery email for a secondary google account but it didn't have a phone number attached so I lost it when they turned on 2FA.
- qingcharles 10mo ago
  Normally I resolve these things by buying all the executive phone numbers and working my way through the phonebook, but Google is the one I've had no success on with this so far.
  - nottorp 10mo ago
    I wasn't using it for much so I just took it as a warning I should get off my ass and de google. ... which hasn't happened, but maybe once every 3 months I move another service to logging in with an email on my personal domain ...
    - brewdad 10mo ago
      I recently ran into a situation where a service I absolutely must use and has no alternative (think government provided service) would only accept a Gmail domain for registration. Any other domain would fail registration with no useful error message. This really shouldn't be allowed in this day and age but I'm effectively powerless to change it. DeGoogling is hard.
      - qingcharles 10mo ago
        I had to sign up with a major SMTP provider last year and they wouldn't accept my regular email for login, which is on a very regular normal domain. They asked me to sign up with a major email like gmail. I was luckily in a position to refuse, and complained until they updated their rules.

gosub100 10mo ago

I don't call anyone a shithead for stealing from any of the major tech companies. They are stealing from us all the time.

venturecruelty 10mo ago

"We can't be fair or impartial because scammers lol. Sorry!"