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Creating the future of mobile with Firefox OS – resources, docs and more

83 points by rnyman 14y ago

z3phyr 14y ago
I am waiting for a 'boot to servo'.... B2S
jbk 14y ago
Still no Native code options? No thank you... Javascript is great for many applications, but multimedia and games are not in this case. Moreover, I don't see what Firefox OS brings that Android cannot do...
- MatthewPhillips 14y ago
  https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/demos/detail/bananabread https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/demos/detail/bananabread http://hexgl.bkcore.com/ http://hexgl.bkcore.com/
- tomjen3 14y ago
  People keep complaining about games, which is funny because it is my job to make games using HTML5 and javascript. No it is not good enough to produce an AAA title -- but those are far from the entire market.
  - debacle 14y ago
    It is not good enough to produce Minecraft.
    - tomjen3 14y ago
      In general 3D and Javascript doesn't yet mix too well. But if you think that Games must be in 3D, try out any number of the cool non 3d games on the app store and see that they don't have to be. That said Minecraft is actually a pretty heavy game to run - it surprised me at first too, but even blocky graphics need a not of computation to work.
    - Arelius 14y ago
      I think you underestimate the speed of modern JS compilers. Minecraft is running in Java, so it's already GC'd which is the major failing of Javascript as a AAA game development language.
  - jawngee 14y ago
    Are you listening to yourself? Can you imagine a "smartphone" mobile platform without AAA game titles? I'm assuming they will have some sort of NDK? Neat project none the less!
    - untog 14y ago
      Can you imagine a "smartphone" mobile platform without AAA game titles? Absolutely. When the iPhone came out it had no AAA game titles- the major publishers held off until they saw what the market was like. I remember my first purchase (and addiction) being some sort of tank-shooting game that was little more than a glorified QBasic Gorillas. Don't get me wrong, they'd need AAA games eventually, but everything has to start somewhere.
      - freehunter 14y ago
        Everything has to start somewhere. Unfortunately, this starting point has moved since the iPhone first came out. Microsoft learned this with Windows Phone; there is reasonable (but low) adoption, unfortunately due to missing features that developers and users consider to be standard, the ecosystem is still missing a few apps and some of the existing apps are/were (things have improved a little since 7.5) lower-featured than those same apps on other platforms. Windows Phone 7 would have been the best thing ever invented if it was released in 2007. Firefox OS would be as well. Windows 95 would have been magic when it was released in 1985. Everything has to start somewhere. But where it ends up is highly dependent on how far it was when it was released.
        untog 14y ago
        True, but being the open project it is, Firefox OS doesn't have the same kind of market pressure that WP, for example, does. They haven't even launched (in any consumer-facing sense), so it might be a little early to judge the platform.
    - tomjen3 14y ago
      Words with Friends, Draw Something, Angry Birds, etc. None of these are AAA titles. All of these are, or were, hugely popular with their players. If you cannot imagine a smartphone mobile platfrom without AAA game titles then the failure isn't as a result of that platform; the failure is your imagination.
- holri 14y ago
  Firefox OS brings real freedom. Android is completely dependent on Google.
  - onedognight 14y ago
    > Firefox OS brings real freedom. Android is completely dependent on Google. Maybe, but Mozilla is completely dependent on on Google as well.
    - graue 14y ago
      Not true. Since last year, the reason Google is paying them so much money for search engine placement is because there was competitive bidding from Bing. https://allthingsd.com/20111222/google-will-pay-mozilla-almost-300m-per-year-in-search-deal-besting-microsoft-and-yahoo/ https://allthingsd.com/20111222/google-will-pay-mozilla-almo...
- untog 14y ago
  Moreover, I don't see what Firefox OS brings that Android cannot do... Well, it has a decent WebView, for a start. It's damn near impossible to make a responsive webapp on Android, the WebView is awful. iOS isn't perfect, but is order of magnitudes better. Why Apple and not Google are pushing this, I have no idea. Google are supposed to be all about the web.
- yarrel 14y ago
  No native code? Excellent, I don't have to worry about whether an app will run on my device or not.
  - Arelius 14y ago
    I'm not sure that fully solves the problem.
acabal 14y ago
Isn't this basically what webOS was? Now that it's OSS, why not piggy back off what they've already done?
- MatthewPhillips 14y ago
  Why throw away over a year's worth of work?
  - acabal 14y ago
    I guess it depends on how far that work has come--if what they have after a year is as good or better than webOS then OK, but if not, webOS worked pretty well for all its rough edges. I guess it pains me for two reasons--I'm a big webOS fan (still use an old Pre 2), and I hate seeing smart developers spending time reinventing the wheel. Though in this case nobody could have predicted the path webOS would have taken so it's not like Mozilla had a choice until very recently.
    - MatthewPhillips 14y ago
      Firefox OS uses the same code base as desktop Firefox, so they don't have to hire all new developers to work on a project that won't integrate with their main product at all. Just makes absolutely no sense for them to adopt WebOS. WebOS never had the same goals as Firefox OS, for one, their goal was simply to use a platform that many devs are already familiar with and using, as a way to gain adoption. It didn't work; turns out devs go where the users are, not where their skills are.
      - lukifer 14y ago
        WebOS didn't fail due to its web roots; it failed due to lackluster hardware, being late to market, and an untimely power shift at HP. Users not caring about the underlying technology cuts both ways; with better marketing and a couple more years of iteration, it could have become a real contender.
- untog 14y ago
spinchange 14y ago
I like the idea of Firefox tablets running this, but not so sure about telephony. Not that it isn't an awesome or commendable effort, it's just going to be tough to succeed where the likes of WebOS failed. A differentiator would be going after lower end tablets and more WiFi centric devices. Same deal with Opera. Like the Chromebooks, but in tablet form.

83 points by rnyman 14y ago

I am waiting for a 'boot to servo'.... B2S

jbk 14y ago

Still no Native code options? No thank you... Javascript is great for many applications, but multimedia and games are not in this case. Moreover, I don't see what Firefox OS brings that Android cannot do...

MatthewPhillips 14y ago
https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/demos/detail/bananabread https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/demos/detail/bananabread http://hexgl.bkcore.com/ http://hexgl.bkcore.com/
tomjen3 14y ago
People keep complaining about games, which is funny because it is my job to make games using HTML5 and javascript. No it is not good enough to produce an AAA title -- but those are far from the entire market.
- debacle 14y ago
  It is not good enough to produce Minecraft.
  - tomjen3 14y ago
    In general 3D and Javascript doesn't yet mix too well. But if you think that Games must be in 3D, try out any number of the cool non 3d games on the app store and see that they don't have to be. That said Minecraft is actually a pretty heavy game to run - it surprised me at first too, but even blocky graphics need a not of computation to work.
  - Arelius 14y ago
    I think you underestimate the speed of modern JS compilers. Minecraft is running in Java, so it's already GC'd which is the major failing of Javascript as a AAA game development language.
- jawngee 14y ago
  Are you listening to yourself? Can you imagine a "smartphone" mobile platform without AAA game titles? I'm assuming they will have some sort of NDK? Neat project none the less!
  - untog 14y ago
    Can you imagine a "smartphone" mobile platform without AAA game titles? Absolutely. When the iPhone came out it had no AAA game titles- the major publishers held off until they saw what the market was like. I remember my first purchase (and addiction) being some sort of tank-shooting game that was little more than a glorified QBasic Gorillas. Don't get me wrong, they'd need AAA games eventually, but everything has to start somewhere.
    - freehunter 14y ago
      Everything has to start somewhere. Unfortunately, this starting point has moved since the iPhone first came out. Microsoft learned this with Windows Phone; there is reasonable (but low) adoption, unfortunately due to missing features that developers and users consider to be standard, the ecosystem is still missing a few apps and some of the existing apps are/were (things have improved a little since 7.5) lower-featured than those same apps on other platforms. Windows Phone 7 would have been the best thing ever invented if it was released in 2007. Firefox OS would be as well. Windows 95 would have been magic when it was released in 1985. Everything has to start somewhere. But where it ends up is highly dependent on how far it was when it was released.
      - untog 14y ago
        True, but being the open project it is, Firefox OS doesn't have the same kind of market pressure that WP, for example, does. They haven't even launched (in any consumer-facing sense), so it might be a little early to judge the platform.
  - tomjen3 14y ago
    Words with Friends, Draw Something, Angry Birds, etc. None of these are AAA titles. All of these are, or were, hugely popular with their players. If you cannot imagine a smartphone mobile platfrom without AAA game titles then the failure isn't as a result of that platform; the failure is your imagination.
holri 14y ago
Firefox OS brings real freedom. Android is completely dependent on Google.
- onedognight 14y ago
  > Firefox OS brings real freedom. Android is completely dependent on Google. Maybe, but Mozilla is completely dependent on on Google as well.
  - graue 14y ago
    Not true. Since last year, the reason Google is paying them so much money for search engine placement is because there was competitive bidding from Bing. https://allthingsd.com/20111222/google-will-pay-mozilla-almost-300m-per-year-in-search-deal-besting-microsoft-and-yahoo/ https://allthingsd.com/20111222/google-will-pay-mozilla-almo...
untog 14y ago
Moreover, I don't see what Firefox OS brings that Android cannot do... Well, it has a decent WebView, for a start. It's damn near impossible to make a responsive webapp on Android, the WebView is awful. iOS isn't perfect, but is order of magnitudes better. Why Apple and not Google are pushing this, I have no idea. Google are supposed to be all about the web.
yarrel 14y ago
No native code? Excellent, I don't have to worry about whether an app will run on my device or not.
- Arelius 14y ago
  I'm not sure that fully solves the problem.

acabal 14y ago

Isn't this basically what webOS was? Now that it's OSS, why not piggy back off what they've already done?

MatthewPhillips 14y ago
Why throw away over a year's worth of work?
- acabal 14y ago
  I guess it depends on how far that work has come--if what they have after a year is as good or better than webOS then OK, but if not, webOS worked pretty well for all its rough edges. I guess it pains me for two reasons--I'm a big webOS fan (still use an old Pre 2), and I hate seeing smart developers spending time reinventing the wheel. Though in this case nobody could have predicted the path webOS would have taken so it's not like Mozilla had a choice until very recently.
  - MatthewPhillips 14y ago
    Firefox OS uses the same code base as desktop Firefox, so they don't have to hire all new developers to work on a project that won't integrate with their main product at all. Just makes absolutely no sense for them to adopt WebOS. WebOS never had the same goals as Firefox OS, for one, their goal was simply to use a platform that many devs are already familiar with and using, as a way to gain adoption. It didn't work; turns out devs go where the users are, not where their skills are.
    - lukifer 14y ago
      WebOS didn't fail due to its web roots; it failed due to lackluster hardware, being late to market, and an untimely power shift at HP. Users not caring about the underlying technology cuts both ways; with better marketing and a couple more years of iteration, it could have become a real contender.
untog 14y ago

spinchange 14y ago

I like the idea of Firefox tablets running this, but not so sure about telephony. Not that it isn't an awesome or commendable effort, it's just going to be tough to succeed where the likes of WebOS failed. A differentiator would be going after lower end tablets and more WiFi centric devices. Same deal with Opera. Like the Chromebooks, but in tablet form.