3 ms·

this same problem is one of the side effects of mining for the metals used in things like solar panels it comes at the sacrifice of many non-western countries

this same problem is one of the side effects of mining for the metals used in things like solar panels it comes at the sacrifice of many non-western countries and this conversation is never on the table it's such a shame things that could otherwise last for thousands of years will get destroyed by a few decades of mismanagement

blackguardx 10mo ago
They have plenty of mines for iron amd otber metals in western countries as well. Check out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butte,_Montana https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butte,_Montana
- closewith 10mo ago
  Not to mention that Brazil is a Western country.
  - dredmorbius 10mo ago
    NB: "West" is less a term of hemispheric fidelity (Australia and New Zealand are typically seen as "western" countries, despite being in the eastern hemisphere), than it is of cultural derivation (on which Brazil has additional claims, via Portugal), and far more prominently, geopolitical and industrial significance, focusing on the industrial, colonial, and financial powers of the world, largely the US, western Europe (a large portion of which is ... in the eastern hemisphere), AU and NZ as mentioned, and arguably Japan. The term is often used to avoid (or sometimes conflate) what have become problematic and/or obsolte terms, including colonial empires, advanced vs. undeveloped countries, NATO vs. Soviet Bloc states, or the similarly cardinal-directed "Global North" vs. "Global South". Pedantry on the point (my own included) isn't particularly illuminating or interesting. Wikipedia's disambiguation page suggests the vagueness of the term: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_(disambiguation) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_(disambiguation)>. Edit: /Brazil has claims/s/has/& additional/
    - amanaplanacanal 10mo ago
      "Rich countries" might be a better shorthand term.
      - dredmorbius 10mo ago
        That's ... somewhat freighted as well (less in the positive than the implied negative framing). "G-n", where n is typically in the range of 6--20, and most canonically refers to the G7 nations of Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, the United Kingdom and the United States, is another formulation, though that omits Australia (reasonably significant) and NZ (a small country, though quite "western" in a cultural sense). Other significant exclusions are of course China, as well as South Korea, any South American states (Mexico and Brazil would be the most likely candidates), as well as numerous European states which aren't as dominant but are still internationally significant commercially and politically, though those last can claim some inclusion under the EU, the "non-enumerated member".
- jna_sh 10mo ago
  Also Kiruna in Sweden, an iron mine they relocate the entire town around to expand: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiruna_mine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiruna_mine Also the reason for the existence of the Norwegian port town of Narvik, connected to Kiruna by the world’s most northerly train line.
jna_sh 10mo ago
Never on which table? “Exporting” environmental degradation is an incredibly widely discussed issue. Especially for South America, due to illegal rainforest clearing for soy farming to feed the NA/EU cattle industry, and lithium mining in Argentina, Bolivia and Chile.
- dkga 10mo ago
  Not just soy farming, a part of which is surprisingly legal in the Brazilian Amazon. Some of the largest problems we have with respect to illegal rainforest deforestation involves logging or, even worse, artisanal gold mining.
- mrguyorama 10mo ago
  I played a flash game in the mid 2000s about running a McDonalds restaurant and growing your beef in brazil by cutting down all the rainforests. One of the most fun games to ever deliver a message hah. Pretty sure it's in the Flashpoint Archive actually, if you want to play it.
pjc50 10mo ago
Always interesting when people select an environmentally friendly technology that will help the transition away from destroying the environment somewhere or indeed everywhere else as the "villain" in this discussion. As if oil or coal extraction were without their controversies.
- amanaplanacanal 10mo ago
  The problem is allowing the companies doing any natural resource extraction to get away with not paying the full cost of the environmental degradation they cause.
triceratops 10mo ago
Oil drilling has worse side effects.

blackguardx 10mo ago

They have plenty of mines for iron amd otber metals in western countries as well. Check out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butte,_Montana https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butte,_Montana

closewith 10mo ago
Not to mention that Brazil is a Western country.
- dredmorbius 10mo ago
  NB: "West" is less a term of hemispheric fidelity (Australia and New Zealand are typically seen as "western" countries, despite being in the eastern hemisphere), than it is of cultural derivation (on which Brazil has additional claims, via Portugal), and far more prominently, geopolitical and industrial significance, focusing on the industrial, colonial, and financial powers of the world, largely the US, western Europe (a large portion of which is ... in the eastern hemisphere), AU and NZ as mentioned, and arguably Japan. The term is often used to avoid (or sometimes conflate) what have become problematic and/or obsolte terms, including colonial empires, advanced vs. undeveloped countries, NATO vs. Soviet Bloc states, or the similarly cardinal-directed "Global North" vs. "Global South". Pedantry on the point (my own included) isn't particularly illuminating or interesting. Wikipedia's disambiguation page suggests the vagueness of the term: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_(disambiguation) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_(disambiguation)>. Edit: /Brazil has claims/s/has/& additional/
  - amanaplanacanal 10mo ago
    "Rich countries" might be a better shorthand term.
    - dredmorbius 10mo ago
      That's ... somewhat freighted as well (less in the positive than the implied negative framing). "G-n", where n is typically in the range of 6--20, and most canonically refers to the G7 nations of Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, the United Kingdom and the United States, is another formulation, though that omits Australia (reasonably significant) and NZ (a small country, though quite "western" in a cultural sense). Other significant exclusions are of course China, as well as South Korea, any South American states (Mexico and Brazil would be the most likely candidates), as well as numerous European states which aren't as dominant but are still internationally significant commercially and politically, though those last can claim some inclusion under the EU, the "non-enumerated member".
jna_sh 10mo ago
Also Kiruna in Sweden, an iron mine they relocate the entire town around to expand: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiruna_mine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiruna_mine Also the reason for the existence of the Norwegian port town of Narvik, connected to Kiruna by the world’s most northerly train line.

jna_sh 10mo ago

Never on which table? “Exporting” environmental degradation is an incredibly widely discussed issue. Especially for South America, due to illegal rainforest clearing for soy farming to feed the NA/EU cattle industry, and lithium mining in Argentina, Bolivia and Chile.

dkga 10mo ago
Not just soy farming, a part of which is surprisingly legal in the Brazilian Amazon. Some of the largest problems we have with respect to illegal rainforest deforestation involves logging or, even worse, artisanal gold mining.
mrguyorama 10mo ago
I played a flash game in the mid 2000s about running a McDonalds restaurant and growing your beef in brazil by cutting down all the rainforests. One of the most fun games to ever deliver a message hah. Pretty sure it's in the Flashpoint Archive actually, if you want to play it.

pjc50 10mo ago

Always interesting when people select an environmentally friendly technology that will help the transition away from destroying the environment somewhere or indeed everywhere else as the "villain" in this discussion. As if oil or coal extraction were without their controversies.

amanaplanacanal 10mo ago
The problem is allowing the companies doing any natural resource extraction to get away with not paying the full cost of the environmental degradation they cause.

triceratops 10mo ago

Oil drilling has worse side effects.