5 ms·

> When teenagers aren’t trusted to walk over to a friend’s house or play in the park, when they almost never have a part-time job where they can earn a paycheck

by komali2 10mo ago

> When teenagers aren’t trusted to walk over to a friend’s house or play in the park, when they almost never have a part-time job where they can earn a paycheck and meet expectations that aren’t purely artificial, then I think it’s much harder for them to have a realistic, non-algorithm-driven worldview and concrete life goals they can work toward. This, and the car-centric design of the American suburb, I think are leading to an increasingly alienated generation of kids. I grew up in suburbs and I couldn't even safely bike to my friend's house because the sidewalk would randomly end before arriving at his neighborhood, and the stroad next to it was at 45mph speed limit (thus in Texas: 60mph) and mostly filled with massive pickup trucks that probably couldn't even see me. So, my options before my parents got home were to play WoW and browse 4chan or do my homework, and if I did my homework before they got home they wouldn't believe me and would make me do some kind of schoolwork so they could see it happening, so basically for 4 years the majority of my free time was spent playing WoW and posting on 4chan. Imo this resulted in me developing an "internet personality" aka "being a piece of shit." I was into manosphere stuff, mildly zenophobic, incredibly transphobic, and insufferably cynical. Getting to college and seeing the disgust on people's faces when I'd drop a 4chan joke was a complete culture shock to me. Took me a good 2 years to adjust to "normal society," by then I also had to overcome a reputation as an asshole. I can't even imagine what it's like for kids like me these days now that there's full on weaponized Discords trying to convince them to shoot up schools for the lulz. At least on 4chan that kind of stuff got banned or mocked.

ensocode 10mo ago
Probably you won't be the freak anymore in today's online society as most of the others do the same
squeefers 10mo ago
> so basically for 4 years the majority of my free time was spent playing WoW and posting on 4chan. because the sidewalk was next to a busy road? sounds like a bit of a reach
- nrhrjrjrjtntbt 10mo ago
  sidewalk ended apparently. i am imagining some super hostile urban planning. like did a cyclist cheat with the planner's spouse? is there not another route?
  - lotsofpulp 10mo ago
    Streetview almost any US suburb. There often is not a way to safely cross a 60ft+ wide road with a 40mph speed limit (which means large vehicles with distracted drivers are driving 50mph+. Almost all businesses are located on these wide roads, and neighborhoods basically become islands for the kids. It’s especially bad in the winter, because it gets dark quicker, and crossing that 60ft+ wide 40mph+ road gets dicey even as an adult.
    - D13Fd 10mo ago
      I wish we had a neighborhood island. The road we live on is a quarter mile long (so, short) with few houses. It ends in a road where cars go 40+ mph. That road is awful - not only are there no sidewalks, but it twists and turns, and the road is cut into a hill with steep unwalkable slopes on either side. At any point a car could be coming downhill around the bend and your options as a pedestrian are to hope they see you or to just get run over.
    - nrhrjrjrjtntbt 10mo ago
      I took you up on the challenge. Something near SF since HN's spiritual home, and not too out in the sticks. https://maps.app.goo.gl/CzuphnMwvwmoo8yLA https://maps.app.goo.gl/CzuphnMwvwmoo8yLA Yeah that looks terrible. That was pretty much random first place I looked.
  - cons0le 10mo ago
    It's impossible for people to get how bad it is until they see it. My old house had a grocery store 1.2 miles away. To walk there, you have to cross a 6 lane highway. Entire neighborhoods here have no sidewalks. And the roads are so torn up they're unusable. My friend had to get rid of his road bike and get a fat tire suspension bike. None of the intersections have any lights or visibility. And you can't run off the road because the ditches have broken glass and garbage in them!. Trash that hasn't been cleaned up in years. Add to that there's a general culture of hostility towards bicycles. A pedestrian got hit by a pickup truck and the trucks made a "caravan" to roll coal at the memorial spot where they hit her. There's no consistency in america. I moved 15 minutes away to "the good" part of town, and every street is new and perfectly smooth. There are marked bike lanes everywhere and they're all connected. I didn't understand at the time, but moving to where the bike lanes are completely changed my life and opened up the entire city for exploring in a way that I didn't expect. Aside from getting my adorable cats on craigslist, no other 1 decision has changed my life for the better so drastically. I sold my car. I bike to new food places on my lunch break. I met tons of amazing new friends. My fitness is way up. People aren't good at visualizing what being in a car all the time is taking from them. In terms of happiness, I honestly feel like I got a 50k raise at my job or something. Car centric design is robbing people of the chance to disscover thier own cities
cons0le 10mo ago
>this resulted in me developing an "internet personality" aka "being a piece of shit. I'm so glad you got out man. Seriously. You climbed out of a hole that many can't even see.
rightbyte 10mo ago
Glad to hear you figured it out. I somewhat identify eventhough I didn't go as deep. > if I did my homework before they got home they wouldn't believe me and would make me do some kind of schoolwork so they could see it happening, so basically for 4 years the majority of my free time was spent playing WoW and posting on 4chan. Oh I hate this. Busywork. Also I think you and I got incentivized to play as much computer games as possible due to the arbitrary limitations of it and constant fear of being pulled off to some busywork. It was like a never ending battle ... I think many parents don't realize that "doing the laundry" on command is like 10x the work of doing it when you please. You can't relax after school.
graemep 10mo ago
I am somewhat doubtful about the importance of American car centric suburbs because its happening in a lot of other countries too. its happened in the last few decades in British cities that have become a lot less car oriented. I think it is linked to things such as pressure on kids to do school work, less trust of both kids and people in general. A lot more control. A lot more metrics replacing judgement.
HexPhantom 10mo ago
What really stuck with me is how delayed the correction was. You didn't get immediate feedback that "this is not how people actually relate to each other" until college, and by then the social debt was already there. That's a brutal way to learn norms

by komali2 10mo ago

ensocode 10mo ago

Probably you won't be the freak anymore in today's online society as most of the others do the same

squeefers 10mo ago

> so basically for 4 years the majority of my free time was spent playing WoW and posting on 4chan. because the sidewalk was next to a busy road? sounds like a bit of a reach

nrhrjrjrjtntbt 10mo ago
sidewalk ended apparently. i am imagining some super hostile urban planning. like did a cyclist cheat with the planner's spouse? is there not another route?
- lotsofpulp 10mo ago
  Streetview almost any US suburb. There often is not a way to safely cross a 60ft+ wide road with a 40mph speed limit (which means large vehicles with distracted drivers are driving 50mph+. Almost all businesses are located on these wide roads, and neighborhoods basically become islands for the kids. It’s especially bad in the winter, because it gets dark quicker, and crossing that 60ft+ wide 40mph+ road gets dicey even as an adult.
  - D13Fd 10mo ago
    I wish we had a neighborhood island. The road we live on is a quarter mile long (so, short) with few houses. It ends in a road where cars go 40+ mph. That road is awful - not only are there no sidewalks, but it twists and turns, and the road is cut into a hill with steep unwalkable slopes on either side. At any point a car could be coming downhill around the bend and your options as a pedestrian are to hope they see you or to just get run over.
  - nrhrjrjrjtntbt 10mo ago
    I took you up on the challenge. Something near SF since HN's spiritual home, and not too out in the sticks. https://maps.app.goo.gl/CzuphnMwvwmoo8yLA https://maps.app.goo.gl/CzuphnMwvwmoo8yLA Yeah that looks terrible. That was pretty much random first place I looked.
- cons0le 10mo ago
  It's impossible for people to get how bad it is until they see it. My old house had a grocery store 1.2 miles away. To walk there, you have to cross a 6 lane highway. Entire neighborhoods here have no sidewalks. And the roads are so torn up they're unusable. My friend had to get rid of his road bike and get a fat tire suspension bike. None of the intersections have any lights or visibility. And you can't run off the road because the ditches have broken glass and garbage in them!. Trash that hasn't been cleaned up in years. Add to that there's a general culture of hostility towards bicycles. A pedestrian got hit by a pickup truck and the trucks made a "caravan" to roll coal at the memorial spot where they hit her. There's no consistency in america. I moved 15 minutes away to "the good" part of town, and every street is new and perfectly smooth. There are marked bike lanes everywhere and they're all connected. I didn't understand at the time, but moving to where the bike lanes are completely changed my life and opened up the entire city for exploring in a way that I didn't expect. Aside from getting my adorable cats on craigslist, no other 1 decision has changed my life for the better so drastically. I sold my car. I bike to new food places on my lunch break. I met tons of amazing new friends. My fitness is way up. People aren't good at visualizing what being in a car all the time is taking from them. In terms of happiness, I honestly feel like I got a 50k raise at my job or something. Car centric design is robbing people of the chance to disscover thier own cities

cons0le 10mo ago

>this resulted in me developing an "internet personality" aka "being a piece of shit. I'm so glad you got out man. Seriously. You climbed out of a hole that many can't even see.

rightbyte 10mo ago

Glad to hear you figured it out. I somewhat identify eventhough I didn't go as deep. > if I did my homework before they got home they wouldn't believe me and would make me do some kind of schoolwork so they could see it happening, so basically for 4 years the majority of my free time was spent playing WoW and posting on 4chan. Oh I hate this. Busywork. Also I think you and I got incentivized to play as much computer games as possible due to the arbitrary limitations of it and constant fear of being pulled off to some busywork. It was like a never ending battle ... I think many parents don't realize that "doing the laundry" on command is like 10x the work of doing it when you please. You can't relax after school.

graemep 10mo ago

I am somewhat doubtful about the importance of American car centric suburbs because its happening in a lot of other countries too. its happened in the last few decades in British cities that have become a lot less car oriented. I think it is linked to things such as pressure on kids to do school work, less trust of both kids and people in general. A lot more control. A lot more metrics replacing judgement.

HexPhantom 10mo ago

What really stuck with me is how delayed the correction was. You didn't get immediate feedback that "this is not how people actually relate to each other" until college, and by then the social debt was already there. That's a brutal way to learn norms