5 ms·

If you want to find which apps are the worst at this use GrapheneOS. Amazon flat out REFUSES to work unless it has unfettered access to everything.

by hekkle 10mo ago

gerdesj 10mo ago
I (UK based) have pfblocker-ng running at the perimeter with quite a lot of blocking. My browser FF has uBlock Origin and Privacy Badger too. Amazon works fine. I suspect they work along the rather practical lines of: if we can snag your data we will but if you want to block our efforts at predation but want to spend out, we are fine with that too. Amazon absolutely will not refuse your money and they are jolly good at extracting it.
- hekkle 10mo ago
  Fair enough, it does make sense that they will maximise their profits where they can, I'm just saying that it (the app not the website) refuses to work unless you provide it a full scope of literally every permission available. Maybe it has more to do with attestation, and verifying that you are not a scammer, than stealing and selling data?
  - deleted 10mo ago
    [deleted]
  - aembleton 10mo ago
    What does the app give you that the website doesn't? I've never tried it as the website works just fine.
    - hekkle 10mo ago
      Just ease of use on a small screen really. I don't use it too much anymore anyway, I'm in Australia, so Amazon's not as big here as it is in the US. We mainly use Ali-Express or Temu, because those apps deliver from China, which is close and more convenient for here, relative to the US.
  - gerdesj 10mo ago
    Ahh, my time to apologise for my assumptions. I'm browser on PC/laptop first and rarely use a phone and never for Amazon. I also rock Linux on everything that I can, so my experience will obviously be different on "PC" too. It really is not about attestation etc, I'm afraid. Its all about maximising profitability. If you use a walled garden friendly device then you will be frisked inappropriately at every opportunity.
bri3d 10mo ago
This isn’t likely to be a good indicator. Essentially only the network permission and any fingerprint is necessary for the tracking in this accusation; the idea is not that TikTok were spying on Grindr on the device, but that a device fingerprinting firm who broker both TikTok and Grindr data were able to correlate the user.
quesera 10mo ago
The only websites that are allowed to run apps on my phone are financial institutions. All other websites are just websites.
- august125 10mo ago
  This was Steve Jobs' original vision for the iPhone, before he relented and launched the App Store. Maybe it was the correct one.
  - quesera 10mo ago
    Not exactly. The iPhone launched with no App Store at all. No exceptions for financial institutions. I allow financial institution apps on my phone because I believe that the security guarantees on iOS are stronger than on my desktop OS, and also that the customer relationship with the banks/etc are more valuable (to the bank) when their apps are not infected with tracking and ads, etc. And of course, the bank knows a lot about me anyway due to transaction history, and they're well-regulated, understand privacy, etc. Also, I have trouble believing that the App Store and public SDKs went from "not on the roadmap" to "released" in one year. I know it's the popular narrative, but I feel like there must be more to the story. It's plausible that they were being worked on but a final management decision hadn't been made to launch them?
gruez 10mo ago
Doesn't grapheneos have the same permission model as stock android? The only thing it adds is internet access and sensors (eg. gyroscope) access. What extra stuff is amazon asking for?
- hekkle 10mo ago
  No, the permissions are very granular compared to Stock Android. I can't remember all of them from scratch, but by way of example Graphene allows for 'contact scopes', which sets permissions for which contacts you will share with each app, rather than a blanket "you can access all of my contacts" that Android has. I know when I tried it last (this was more than a year ago mind you so it might have changed), if you didn't give Amazon access to all contacts it somehow knew and refused to work.
vjvjvjvjghv 10mo ago
The whole permission thing is broken. They are too broad and nobody understands what they really mean. I would also like to see a log of when and how an app uses granted permissions.
Aurornis 10mo ago
The headline is misleading. The TikTok app isn’t doing the tracking. The dating app providers are selling their user’s data. TikTok is one of the companies buying it. Technical protections on your phone aren’t going to stop anything if you’re using apps that sell your data from their servers out the back door.
asdff 10mo ago
Ironically amazon.com works perfectly with javascript disabled. One of the few major sites that still do in my experience.
- mr_toad 10mo ago
  Call me an old fashion capitalist but I have a certain respect for businesses still willing to engage in a simple exchange of money for goods and services.

If you want to find which apps are the worst at this use GrapheneOS. Amazon flat out REFUSES to work unless it has unfettered access to everything.

by hekkle 10mo ago

If you want to find which apps are the worst at this use GrapheneOS. Amazon flat out REFUSES to work unless it has unfettered access to everything.

gerdesj 10mo ago

I (UK based) have pfblocker-ng running at the perimeter with quite a lot of blocking. My browser FF has uBlock Origin and Privacy Badger too. Amazon works fine. I suspect they work along the rather practical lines of: if we can snag your data we will but if you want to block our efforts at predation but want to spend out, we are fine with that too. Amazon absolutely will not refuse your money and they are jolly good at extracting it.

hekkle 10mo ago
Fair enough, it does make sense that they will maximise their profits where they can, I'm just saying that it (the app not the website) refuses to work unless you provide it a full scope of literally every permission available. Maybe it has more to do with attestation, and verifying that you are not a scammer, than stealing and selling data?
- deleted 10mo ago
  [deleted]
- aembleton 10mo ago
  What does the app give you that the website doesn't? I've never tried it as the website works just fine.
  - hekkle 10mo ago
    Just ease of use on a small screen really. I don't use it too much anymore anyway, I'm in Australia, so Amazon's not as big here as it is in the US. We mainly use Ali-Express or Temu, because those apps deliver from China, which is close and more convenient for here, relative to the US.
- gerdesj 10mo ago
  Ahh, my time to apologise for my assumptions. I'm browser on PC/laptop first and rarely use a phone and never for Amazon. I also rock Linux on everything that I can, so my experience will obviously be different on "PC" too. It really is not about attestation etc, I'm afraid. Its all about maximising profitability. If you use a walled garden friendly device then you will be frisked inappropriately at every opportunity.

bri3d 10mo ago

This isn’t likely to be a good indicator. Essentially only the network permission and any fingerprint is necessary for the tracking in this accusation; the idea is not that TikTok were spying on Grindr on the device, but that a device fingerprinting firm who broker both TikTok and Grindr data were able to correlate the user.

quesera 10mo ago

The only websites that are allowed to run apps on my phone are financial institutions. All other websites are just websites.

august125 10mo ago
This was Steve Jobs' original vision for the iPhone, before he relented and launched the App Store. Maybe it was the correct one.
- quesera 10mo ago
  Not exactly. The iPhone launched with no App Store at all. No exceptions for financial institutions. I allow financial institution apps on my phone because I believe that the security guarantees on iOS are stronger than on my desktop OS, and also that the customer relationship with the banks/etc are more valuable (to the bank) when their apps are not infected with tracking and ads, etc. And of course, the bank knows a lot about me anyway due to transaction history, and they're well-regulated, understand privacy, etc. Also, I have trouble believing that the App Store and public SDKs went from "not on the roadmap" to "released" in one year. I know it's the popular narrative, but I feel like there must be more to the story. It's plausible that they were being worked on but a final management decision hadn't been made to launch them?

gruez 10mo ago

Doesn't grapheneos have the same permission model as stock android? The only thing it adds is internet access and sensors (eg. gyroscope) access. What extra stuff is amazon asking for?

hekkle 10mo ago
No, the permissions are very granular compared to Stock Android. I can't remember all of them from scratch, but by way of example Graphene allows for 'contact scopes', which sets permissions for which contacts you will share with each app, rather than a blanket "you can access all of my contacts" that Android has. I know when I tried it last (this was more than a year ago mind you so it might have changed), if you didn't give Amazon access to all contacts it somehow knew and refused to work.

vjvjvjvjghv 10mo ago

The whole permission thing is broken. They are too broad and nobody understands what they really mean. I would also like to see a log of when and how an app uses granted permissions.

Aurornis 10mo ago

The headline is misleading. The TikTok app isn’t doing the tracking. The dating app providers are selling their user’s data. TikTok is one of the companies buying it. Technical protections on your phone aren’t going to stop anything if you’re using apps that sell your data from their servers out the back door.

asdff 10mo ago

Ironically amazon.com works perfectly with javascript disabled. One of the few major sites that still do in my experience.

mr_toad 10mo ago
Call me an old fashion capitalist but I have a certain respect for businesses still willing to engage in a simple exchange of money for goods and services.