4 ms·

My experience is in the US they are no less talented, there is just a much wider abandonment of doing anything which isn't going to generate money, along with b

by fidotron 11mo ago

My experience is in the US they are no less talented, there is just a much wider abandonment of doing anything which isn't going to generate money, along with being disparaging towards anyone that does pursue things as an amateur. i.e. being a "sports fan" is more socially acceptable than being someone that actually plays a sport enthusiastically but not at a high level.

cosmic_cheese 11mo ago
Yeah, I didn't word it well but part of that is exactly what I was getting at in my post. In the US there's a weird crab-bucket mentality thing going on where we shoot ourselves and each other down when making an attempt to skill up. Maybe worse, if you ignore that and skill up anyway those same people will take it as a personal insult and act like you're trying to be "better" than them. "You're one of us, stay where you belong." It's a truly bizarre dynamic. The money part is real too, though. It gets baked in early. I've had to try to shut out that nagging voice in the back of my head myself.
- venturecruelty 11mo ago
  Well, consider how awful it is to be poor in the United States, and it makes sense why people work so hard to avoid it.
  - cosmic_cheese 11mo ago
    That's totally understandable, but one would expect that it's something that's eventually grown out of as one ascends the ranks, and yet there's no shortage of very financially successful people who are in little danger of becoming impoverished who continue to act that way.
lanfeust6 11mo ago
I think this is in part projection of insecurity by low/middle classes, because rec sports are definitely a social status signal for upper classes. It's also "socially acceptable" to waste hours of time watching TV instead of hustling. Another data point as a counter is the popularity of video games. The only people saying they should just be for kids are aging boomers (in general) I do agree though that there is a stronger social pressure to be enterprising. For young Americans I think the obsession is social media or youtube
unsignedint 11mo ago
I think part of it is that, in the US (and probably in many other countries too), the roles of maker and consumer tend to be more clearly separated. In contrast, among Japanese users, that line feels much more blurred. One thing I’ve noticed is that there are a lot of “avatar worlds” where people just go in and pick premade avatars, but these are almost nonexistent—or at least not widely used—by Japanese audiences. The main exception seems to be worlds specifically designed for trying on sample avatars, rather than adopting them as-is.
- jjpones 11mo ago
  >...the roles of maker and consumer tend to be more clearly separated. In contrast, among Japanese users, that line feels much more blurred. Seeing a Japanese singer I really enjoy listening to post clips of her Valorant gameplay with her own music playing in the background was quite jarring. I couldn't imagine something remotely similar happening with a pop-singer in the West. The closest analogue that comes to mind would be D&Diesel with Vin Diesel, where he played D&D (the nerd that he is) for a youtube video with the Critical Role cast.
  - underlipton 10mo ago
    Beyonce did a Nintendo commercial once. That was amusing.
dotnet00 11mo ago
I think there is a genuine difference in the respect/appreciation for the arts between the two countries. Americans seem far more proud of their ignorance of the arts and in their lack of respect for artists. I wonder if it might also be related to Japan's stronger laws against slander/libel and lack of fair use. I've seen many cases of harassed Japanese creators being able to drag their abusers into court in ways that seem very alien here
wkat4242 11mo ago
Agreed, I make a lot of stuff in my free time (cosplay related) and a lot of my older friends from Holland really frown on that saying it's "immature" and "I should do something more important with my time like doing a work course instead of playing dress up" :( The same with my projects at the makerspace, several people have asked me "why do you bother if you're not selling anything". People are so focused on money it's ridiculous. I just love the experience of dreaming something up and seeing it materialize. It gives me agency. At least most of my more recent friends love it. But it's a bit off-putting. A lot of my older friends don't think watching mediocre streaming shows or football is a waste of time though, no, that's "enjoying the fruits of hard work". Whatever.

cosmic_cheese 11mo ago

Yeah, I didn't word it well but part of that is exactly what I was getting at in my post. In the US there's a weird crab-bucket mentality thing going on where we shoot ourselves and each other down when making an attempt to skill up. Maybe worse, if you ignore that and skill up anyway those same people will take it as a personal insult and act like you're trying to be "better" than them. "You're one of us, stay where you belong." It's a truly bizarre dynamic. The money part is real too, though. It gets baked in early. I've had to try to shut out that nagging voice in the back of my head myself.

venturecruelty 11mo ago
Well, consider how awful it is to be poor in the United States, and it makes sense why people work so hard to avoid it.
- cosmic_cheese 11mo ago
  That's totally understandable, but one would expect that it's something that's eventually grown out of as one ascends the ranks, and yet there's no shortage of very financially successful people who are in little danger of becoming impoverished who continue to act that way.

lanfeust6 11mo ago

I think this is in part projection of insecurity by low/middle classes, because rec sports are definitely a social status signal for upper classes. It's also "socially acceptable" to waste hours of time watching TV instead of hustling. Another data point as a counter is the popularity of video games. The only people saying they should just be for kids are aging boomers (in general) I do agree though that there is a stronger social pressure to be enterprising. For young Americans I think the obsession is social media or youtube

unsignedint 11mo ago

I think part of it is that, in the US (and probably in many other countries too), the roles of maker and consumer tend to be more clearly separated. In contrast, among Japanese users, that line feels much more blurred. One thing I’ve noticed is that there are a lot of “avatar worlds” where people just go in and pick premade avatars, but these are almost nonexistent—or at least not widely used—by Japanese audiences. The main exception seems to be worlds specifically designed for trying on sample avatars, rather than adopting them as-is.

jjpones 11mo ago
>...the roles of maker and consumer tend to be more clearly separated. In contrast, among Japanese users, that line feels much more blurred. Seeing a Japanese singer I really enjoy listening to post clips of her Valorant gameplay with her own music playing in the background was quite jarring. I couldn't imagine something remotely similar happening with a pop-singer in the West. The closest analogue that comes to mind would be D&Diesel with Vin Diesel, where he played D&D (the nerd that he is) for a youtube video with the Critical Role cast.
- underlipton 10mo ago
  Beyonce did a Nintendo commercial once. That was amusing.

dotnet00 11mo ago

I think there is a genuine difference in the respect/appreciation for the arts between the two countries. Americans seem far more proud of their ignorance of the arts and in their lack of respect for artists. I wonder if it might also be related to Japan's stronger laws against slander/libel and lack of fair use. I've seen many cases of harassed Japanese creators being able to drag their abusers into court in ways that seem very alien here

wkat4242 11mo ago

Agreed, I make a lot of stuff in my free time (cosplay related) and a lot of my older friends from Holland really frown on that saying it's "immature" and "I should do something more important with my time like doing a work course instead of playing dress up" :( The same with my projects at the makerspace, several people have asked me "why do you bother if you're not selling anything". People are so focused on money it's ridiculous. I just love the experience of dreaming something up and seeing it materialize. It gives me agency. At least most of my more recent friends love it. But it's a bit off-putting. A lot of my older friends don't think watching mediocre streaming shows or football is a waste of time though, no, that's "enjoying the fruits of hard work". Whatever.