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I do find it interesting that we ask Aspies to become more empathetic, but we don't ask neurotipicals to become a little less hung up on social niceties. Obvio

I do find it interesting that we ask Aspies to become more empathetic, but we don't ask neurotipicals to become a little less hung up on social niceties. Obviously, neurotypicals get the benefit of the doubt for "how people should be", since there are so many more of them. But we don't ask gays to be straight, despite not being "normal", numerically, so why should we ask Aspies to be more empathetic? Why assume an Aspie is broken, by default? Where's the proof that lack of empathy is a problem for anything other than working with neurotypicals? I can't help but wonder that the future might not actually belong to neurotypicals. That, perhaps, the Aspie mutation might be better adapted to a world that is becoming more and more computerized and less and less hospitable to neurotypicals. For example, consider Zynga. How many normals are completely wasting their lives and earnings on an objectively stupid social game because their normal, empathetic minds have been hacked to "like" and see value in it? We all can see that it's sad, and yet we know there's virtually nothing that can be done for them, short of banning those games. They simply cannot adapt, where Aspies can (and have). Neurotypicals seem to think Aspies have "anti-social" lives, but those I've met seem pretty happy. And at least from my perspective, are really straightforward to get along with, if you can understand their behavior and not take offense and what would normally be a slight in neurotypical-land. Perhaps trying to turn Aspies into neurotypicals is really only beneficial today because most of the world is normal, so Aspies, to some degree, need to work with neurotypicals if they are to achieve anything. But how long will that be true? When will a critical mass of Aspies exist, or the world become hospitable to them despite not having to pretend to be neurotypicals? And what then? Do we continue to try and "make the gays straight", so to speak? Or do we realize that an Aspie is just as valid a way to live as anything else, and not a disability to be overcome? It's strange to see evolution happen right in front of us. I don't have any answers, but these are the thoughts that have occurred to me for some time now, and I thought I'd share.

PakG1 14y ago
We do do this. Have you never been involved in a work conversation where someone says, "Get to the point, you're wasting everyone's time." Have you never gone to someone to make a request, and you're starting out with a long spiel about your reasons, and the other person says, "Look, I'm busy, just tell me what it is you want." I see these kinds of conversations a lot. It's not always in one direction.
- kijin 14y ago
  Yes, being busy is an excellent excuse to behave a bit like an Aspie, even if you're neurotypical. Aspies (and introverts in general) thrive in environments where people are evaluated more on the basis of getting shit done quickly and accurately, and less on the basis of how often they drink with their boss. It's maker's schedule vs. manager's schedule all over again. So, in a sense, modern societies' increasing emphasis on efficiency and productivity might work in favor of Aspies. So does urbanization, which allows you to disregard what your great-aunt's second cousin thinks about your new socks.
jiggy2011 14y ago
Do you think that aspies are less susceptible to Zynga games? I don't know either way but in my own experience aspie types that I have met seem much more likely to be hooked on games like WoW certainly. I'm not sure that the comparison to gays works so well because by and large being gay doesn't affect your day to day relationships with other people apart from in specific circumstances. Unless you act in a stereotypical gay fashion it's quite likely that nobody will ever know you are gay unless you tell them. I've met plenty of people whom I've known have been gay but in all likelyhood I've met countless more who have been gay and I've had no idea. It's very hard to hide if you are an aspie or socially retarded in some way and it's something that is likely to affect your relationship with everybody who you meet. By and large these effects will also be negative since people are uncomfortable around people they regard as "weird".
- kijin 14y ago
  Zynga specializes in social games. FarmVille is rather pointless if you're not interesting in visiting your friends' farms and chatting about each other's cows. WoW, on the other hand, is fun to play even if you're not into idle chitchat. Now, Minecraft, that's an Aspie's wet dream.
maxerickson 14y ago
The very low prevalence of the condition means that people with Asperger's would have to enjoy vastly higher rates of reproductive success to become a substantial portion of the population. That doesn't seem to be the case. And that presumes that there is a mostly genetic basis for the condition (the womb environment does seem to factor into autistic spectrum disorders).
corporalagumbo 14y ago
Wikipedia describes Asperger's as a "pervasive developmental disorder", characterised by "significant difficulties in social interaction, alongside restricted and repetitive patterns of behavior and interests" and also often "physical clumsiness and atypical use of language." This description, along with my impression of how people with the condition function in life, brings to my mind an image of people who are socially-blind, unable to avoid constantly tripping, stumbling and smashing into the obstacles of social terrain around them. While I support the move to view Asperger's more as a different way of being human rather than a defect per se, this does not to me sound like the making of a new master race. If Zynga was the result of a Asperger's conspiracy to hijack the frivolous satisfaction pathways of "neurotypicals" and so take over the world, I might think differently. But it's not. People with Asperger's don't seem to be interested in conquering the neurotypical world, they seem to be happiest staying at home playing with computers and avoiding other people. Basically, my impression of Asperger's sufferers is that they lack the social insight and intuition to succeed in the real world. They do okay in carefully-constructed bubbles with interesting non-human toys and machines to play with. But they can't cope with normal human beings. Additionally, your characterisation of normal human beings as too dumb and clueless to resist mindless games is... rather crude I think. You sound bitter.
- Blasde99 14y ago
  >Basically, my impression of Asperger's sufferers is that they lack the social insight and intuition to succeed in the real world. Or, phrased a different way, they seem to be incapable (or uninterested in) tricking and manipulating their fellow man simply for their own benefit, regardless of the detriment to others. >They do okay in carefully-constructed bubbles with interesting non-human toys and machines to play with. Or phrased a different way, they help mankind progress by focusing on the physical world, solving problems and creating tools... rather than attempting to gain benefits for themselves by manipulating and suckering other humans in a series of "con artist" games. >But they can't cope with normal human beings. Or, again viewed from a different angle -- they have difficulty dealing with (to them) unpredictable,lying, manipulative, socio-parasitic people. >Additionally, your characterisation of normal human beings as too dumb and clueless to resist mindless games is... rather crude I think. You sound bitter. Or there is the possibility of the opposite view -- that it is YOU who are more than a bit 'bitter' -- technology is largely a black-box puzzle to you, so you allow others to deal with it, and instead concentrate on parasitic (people manipulation) means of satisfying your needs and wants. And then you justify this by denigrating those who deal with (and advance) technology in ways that you cannot.
Blasde99 14y ago
>I can't help but wonder that the future might not actually belong to neurotypicals. That, perhaps, the Aspie mutation might be better adapted to a world that is becoming more and more computerized and less and less hospitable to neurotypicals. This will ENTIRELY depend on who out-reproduces the other. >Neurotypicals seem to think Aspies have "anti-social" lives, but those I've met seem pretty happy. But not necessarily reproductively successful. >When will a critical mass of Aspies exist, or the world become hospitable to them despite not having to pretend to be neurotypicals? Quite probably the opposite will happen (has happened, and is happening). In a very ironic/paradoxical sense, it is the "Aspies" (people who have historically "obsessed" over machinery, technology and the physical world -- to the detriment of their own sexual reproduction) who have enabled the technophobes to successfully increase in numbers far beyond what they were capable of before. When human reproductive choices were far more limited (because travel was limited, total number of human interactions were limited, technology spread/scaling was limited, etc) then the anti-social (a-social? under-social?) Aspie types still had a chance to reproduce in sufficient numbers such as to pass on their genes. In addition, at previous levels of technology access to information/tools essentially required interaction with other human beings (to a far larger degree than with current technology). The modern world -- with everything from antibiotics to automobiles & jet airplanes -- has led to humans having wider circles, to the greater marginalization of Aspie types; and recent technology (especially the internet) has facilitated a self-withdrawal of more and more Aspies; such that more and more of them are likely to be genetic dead-ends. Ergo the chances of Aspies reaching some "critical mass" is not only highly unlikely, it is improbable.

PakG1 14y ago

We do do this. Have you never been involved in a work conversation where someone says, "Get to the point, you're wasting everyone's time." Have you never gone to someone to make a request, and you're starting out with a long spiel about your reasons, and the other person says, "Look, I'm busy, just tell me what it is you want." I see these kinds of conversations a lot. It's not always in one direction.

kijin 14y ago
Yes, being busy is an excellent excuse to behave a bit like an Aspie, even if you're neurotypical. Aspies (and introverts in general) thrive in environments where people are evaluated more on the basis of getting shit done quickly and accurately, and less on the basis of how often they drink with their boss. It's maker's schedule vs. manager's schedule all over again. So, in a sense, modern societies' increasing emphasis on efficiency and productivity might work in favor of Aspies. So does urbanization, which allows you to disregard what your great-aunt's second cousin thinks about your new socks.

jiggy2011 14y ago

Do you think that aspies are less susceptible to Zynga games? I don't know either way but in my own experience aspie types that I have met seem much more likely to be hooked on games like WoW certainly. I'm not sure that the comparison to gays works so well because by and large being gay doesn't affect your day to day relationships with other people apart from in specific circumstances. Unless you act in a stereotypical gay fashion it's quite likely that nobody will ever know you are gay unless you tell them. I've met plenty of people whom I've known have been gay but in all likelyhood I've met countless more who have been gay and I've had no idea. It's very hard to hide if you are an aspie or socially retarded in some way and it's something that is likely to affect your relationship with everybody who you meet. By and large these effects will also be negative since people are uncomfortable around people they regard as "weird".

kijin 14y ago
Zynga specializes in social games. FarmVille is rather pointless if you're not interesting in visiting your friends' farms and chatting about each other's cows. WoW, on the other hand, is fun to play even if you're not into idle chitchat. Now, Minecraft, that's an Aspie's wet dream.

maxerickson 14y ago

The very low prevalence of the condition means that people with Asperger's would have to enjoy vastly higher rates of reproductive success to become a substantial portion of the population. That doesn't seem to be the case. And that presumes that there is a mostly genetic basis for the condition (the womb environment does seem to factor into autistic spectrum disorders).

corporalagumbo 14y ago

Wikipedia describes Asperger's as a "pervasive developmental disorder", characterised by "significant difficulties in social interaction, alongside restricted and repetitive patterns of behavior and interests" and also often "physical clumsiness and atypical use of language." This description, along with my impression of how people with the condition function in life, brings to my mind an image of people who are socially-blind, unable to avoid constantly tripping, stumbling and smashing into the obstacles of social terrain around them. While I support the move to view Asperger's more as a different way of being human rather than a defect per se, this does not to me sound like the making of a new master race. If Zynga was the result of a Asperger's conspiracy to hijack the frivolous satisfaction pathways of "neurotypicals" and so take over the world, I might think differently. But it's not. People with Asperger's don't seem to be interested in conquering the neurotypical world, they seem to be happiest staying at home playing with computers and avoiding other people. Basically, my impression of Asperger's sufferers is that they lack the social insight and intuition to succeed in the real world. They do okay in carefully-constructed bubbles with interesting non-human toys and machines to play with. But they can't cope with normal human beings. Additionally, your characterisation of normal human beings as too dumb and clueless to resist mindless games is... rather crude I think. You sound bitter.

Blasde99 14y ago
>Basically, my impression of Asperger's sufferers is that they lack the social insight and intuition to succeed in the real world. Or, phrased a different way, they seem to be incapable (or uninterested in) tricking and manipulating their fellow man simply for their own benefit, regardless of the detriment to others. >They do okay in carefully-constructed bubbles with interesting non-human toys and machines to play with. Or phrased a different way, they help mankind progress by focusing on the physical world, solving problems and creating tools... rather than attempting to gain benefits for themselves by manipulating and suckering other humans in a series of "con artist" games. >But they can't cope with normal human beings. Or, again viewed from a different angle -- they have difficulty dealing with (to them) unpredictable,lying, manipulative, socio-parasitic people. >Additionally, your characterisation of normal human beings as too dumb and clueless to resist mindless games is... rather crude I think. You sound bitter. Or there is the possibility of the opposite view -- that it is YOU who are more than a bit 'bitter' -- technology is largely a black-box puzzle to you, so you allow others to deal with it, and instead concentrate on parasitic (people manipulation) means of satisfying your needs and wants. And then you justify this by denigrating those who deal with (and advance) technology in ways that you cannot.

Blasde99 14y ago

>I can't help but wonder that the future might not actually belong to neurotypicals. That, perhaps, the Aspie mutation might be better adapted to a world that is becoming more and more computerized and less and less hospitable to neurotypicals. This will ENTIRELY depend on who out-reproduces the other. >Neurotypicals seem to think Aspies have "anti-social" lives, but those I've met seem pretty happy. But not necessarily reproductively successful. >When will a critical mass of Aspies exist, or the world become hospitable to them despite not having to pretend to be neurotypicals? Quite probably the opposite will happen (has happened, and is happening). In a very ironic/paradoxical sense, it is the "Aspies" (people who have historically "obsessed" over machinery, technology and the physical world -- to the detriment of their own sexual reproduction) who have enabled the technophobes to successfully increase in numbers far beyond what they were capable of before. When human reproductive choices were far more limited (because travel was limited, total number of human interactions were limited, technology spread/scaling was limited, etc) then the anti-social (a-social? under-social?) Aspie types still had a chance to reproduce in sufficient numbers such as to pass on their genes. In addition, at previous levels of technology access to information/tools essentially required interaction with other human beings (to a far larger degree than with current technology). The modern world -- with everything from antibiotics to automobiles & jet airplanes -- has led to humans having wider circles, to the greater marginalization of Aspie types; and recent technology (especially the internet) has facilitated a self-withdrawal of more and more Aspies; such that more and more of them are likely to be genetic dead-ends. Ergo the chances of Aspies reaching some "critical mass" is not only highly unlikely, it is improbable.