6 ms·

What annoys me with this, is are we going to get kids going through school, graduating from University, while taking amphetamines and then coming into the softw

by veb 14y ago

What annoys me with this, is are we going to get kids going through school, graduating from University, while taking amphetamines and then coming into the software industry and working 18 hour days without breaking a sweat? If so, where's my option to get these meds? Oh wait, I can't because I'm not ADHD, and because I wasn't "diagnosed" as a kid, it won't happen now. I really hope the older programmers in our industry won't have to compete with people-on-drugs in the future... but it'll happen won't it?

bluedanieru 14y ago
Aren't racetams a superior alternative anyway, and more easily available?
- masterzora 14y ago
  Superior how? Last I checked there was 0 solid research linking them to pretty much any effect whatsoever.
  - pdog 14y ago
    Racetams, and in particular piracetam, have been studied in an extensive number of clinical experiments. Their effects aren't poorly understood. http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=piracetam http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=piracetam You might want to filter the research by time to get more recent studies, but there's a vast body of knowledge built over decades.
- signified 14y ago
  Different, not necessarily superior. The *racetams impact acetylcholine levels, and this neurochem plays a part in memory formation and retention. Additionally racetams are associated with increased oxygen flow in the brain. Anecdotal evidence suggests they can cause headaches if you aren't taking choline, but also is strongly positive towards sharper memory. They're easily obtainable as supplements, and unlike classic amphetamine-based stimulants, aren't demonstrably neurotoxic or addictive. In my opinion, however, there is no comparing/substituting them to traditional stimulants that allow for hours of immediate focus. Take both. Or better yet titrate the addictive amphetamine down with adrafinil or modafinil. Adrafinil is an effective way to avoid a lack of sleep's associated cognitive deficits. It seems to be correlated in people with subjectively low IQs though http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16140369 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16140369 Nootropics are a fascinating topic, and many are inexpensive and uncontrolled enough to make a personal trial potentially pay dividends. Or cause an aneurysm. I am not a doctor.
- D3 14y ago
  And completely untested in children. Sounds like a great idea.
guard-of-terra 14y ago
I genuinely wonder why is it about competing in the workspace; instead cooperating in the workspace? The demand for programmers is not constant; it grows with the number of talented programmers, as many new projects now become feasible.
vl 14y ago
>I really hope the older programmers in our industry won't have to compete with people-on-drugs in the future... but it'll happen won't it? Of course we'll have to compete, and of course we'll use medicine, brain implants, gene therapy, you name it, because it's either that or irrelevancy. Lets be grateful for our profession, because it has a chance to become irrelevant last.
hristov 14y ago
If someone goes through school and university on these pills that would be what 8-12 years on speed? They are not to be envied. And 18 hour work days take a toll on you regardless of whether you are taking pills or not. It is more dangerous if you are taking pills because then you do not notice the effect on your body.
charliepark 14y ago
Although I'm not sure what the air-quotes around "diagnosed" are intended to mean, I suspect it's because you doubt it's a legitimate dysfunction? Regardless, on your point about being diagnosed as an adult: I was diagnosed as having ADHD as an adult. It's not unheard of. The only reason I wasn't diagnosed as a teenager was that I wasn't hyperactive — just incredibly distractible — and I was smart enough that I performed "acceptably" in school. I've wondered, though, what I could have leveled-up to if I hadn't been fighting my distractibility. Anyway, I was diagnosed at around age 30, was on meds (Wellbutrin) for about two years, and developed good skills and organizational techniques, so that I don't need the medication any longer. Ultimately, it wasn't the medication that taught me the skills; they just cleared my head and allowed me to develop them on the side. If you genuinely think that you might have ADHD (specifically, ADHD-inattentive-type, like me), you'd do well to talk to a psychiatrist.
- rsaarelm 14y ago
  It can be a legit dysfunction that starts getting a lot of false diagnoses once parents start thinking that the medication boosts academic performance whether or not the kid actually has the problem.
- justinlink 14y ago
  I second this. I was diagnosed as an adult (two years after college). I'm now thirty. If you are not hyperactive as a child, I feel it's very rare that you will get diagnosed. People forgot these days there is just the attention-deficit-disorder without the hyper-activity. Call your general physician.
EliRivers 14y ago
I would be very secure in my job if everyone I competed with for it had been an amphetamine addict since the age of ten. On the downside, I dread to think of the code speed-freaks would churn out after 18 hours jazzed up, ten years into their addiction.

by veb 14y ago

bluedanieru 14y ago

Aren't racetams a superior alternative anyway, and more easily available?

masterzora 14y ago
Superior how? Last I checked there was 0 solid research linking them to pretty much any effect whatsoever.
- pdog 14y ago
  Racetams, and in particular piracetam, have been studied in an extensive number of clinical experiments. Their effects aren't poorly understood. http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=piracetam http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=piracetam You might want to filter the research by time to get more recent studies, but there's a vast body of knowledge built over decades.
signified 14y ago
Different, not necessarily superior. The *racetams impact acetylcholine levels, and this neurochem plays a part in memory formation and retention. Additionally racetams are associated with increased oxygen flow in the brain. Anecdotal evidence suggests they can cause headaches if you aren't taking choline, but also is strongly positive towards sharper memory. They're easily obtainable as supplements, and unlike classic amphetamine-based stimulants, aren't demonstrably neurotoxic or addictive. In my opinion, however, there is no comparing/substituting them to traditional stimulants that allow for hours of immediate focus. Take both. Or better yet titrate the addictive amphetamine down with adrafinil or modafinil. Adrafinil is an effective way to avoid a lack of sleep's associated cognitive deficits. It seems to be correlated in people with subjectively low IQs though http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16140369 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16140369 Nootropics are a fascinating topic, and many are inexpensive and uncontrolled enough to make a personal trial potentially pay dividends. Or cause an aneurysm. I am not a doctor.
D3 14y ago
And completely untested in children. Sounds like a great idea.

guard-of-terra 14y ago

I genuinely wonder why is it about competing in the workspace; instead cooperating in the workspace? The demand for programmers is not constant; it grows with the number of talented programmers, as many new projects now become feasible.

vl 14y ago

>I really hope the older programmers in our industry won't have to compete with people-on-drugs in the future... but it'll happen won't it? Of course we'll have to compete, and of course we'll use medicine, brain implants, gene therapy, you name it, because it's either that or irrelevancy. Lets be grateful for our profession, because it has a chance to become irrelevant last.

hristov 14y ago

If someone goes through school and university on these pills that would be what 8-12 years on speed? They are not to be envied. And 18 hour work days take a toll on you regardless of whether you are taking pills or not. It is more dangerous if you are taking pills because then you do not notice the effect on your body.

charliepark 14y ago

Although I'm not sure what the air-quotes around "diagnosed" are intended to mean, I suspect it's because you doubt it's a legitimate dysfunction? Regardless, on your point about being diagnosed as an adult: I was diagnosed as having ADHD as an adult. It's not unheard of. The only reason I wasn't diagnosed as a teenager was that I wasn't hyperactive — just incredibly distractible — and I was smart enough that I performed "acceptably" in school. I've wondered, though, what I could have leveled-up to if I hadn't been fighting my distractibility. Anyway, I was diagnosed at around age 30, was on meds (Wellbutrin) for about two years, and developed good skills and organizational techniques, so that I don't need the medication any longer. Ultimately, it wasn't the medication that taught me the skills; they just cleared my head and allowed me to develop them on the side. If you genuinely think that you might have ADHD (specifically, ADHD-inattentive-type, like me), you'd do well to talk to a psychiatrist.

rsaarelm 14y ago
It can be a legit dysfunction that starts getting a lot of false diagnoses once parents start thinking that the medication boosts academic performance whether or not the kid actually has the problem.
justinlink 14y ago
I second this. I was diagnosed as an adult (two years after college). I'm now thirty. If you are not hyperactive as a child, I feel it's very rare that you will get diagnosed. People forgot these days there is just the attention-deficit-disorder without the hyper-activity. Call your general physician.

EliRivers 14y ago

I would be very secure in my job if everyone I competed with for it had been an amphetamine addict since the age of ten. On the downside, I dread to think of the code speed-freaks would churn out after 18 hours jazzed up, ten years into their addiction.