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Ford Has Steered Its Former EV Truck and Plant Plans in to a Ditch

36 points by zdw 11mo ago

tibbydudeza 11mo ago
Not surprised. They pulled back out of the EU and other markets like South America and BYD opened up an assembly plant in Brazil. Turn back the clock and Ford ruled the EU with saloons like the Escort, Mondeo and later the Focus - they were caught unawares with shift to compact SUV's and had the popular Ecosport but never invested in the product line and it was left to wither and die. They are teaming up with Renault to use their EV platform to maintain a token presence in the EU but consumers today are smarter and more informed and will not buy badge engineered Fords.
- dangus 11mo ago
  The formula is so simple, but complicated to achieve underneath: sell the best products. That’s all you have to do. But so many companies resort to financial games and short term business gimmicks rather than believing that they can make the best products and putting focus and drive into that goal (not just money!) Stellantis can make great products but for the most part they just won’t. They actively refuse to. Same deal with Ford. GM is doing well with EVs because they actually make good products. The Silverado EV is the best EV truck on the market, Cadillac makes the best luxury EVs on the market[1], and the Honda Prologue (made by GM) is a sales star because it’s a good product that knows its market. Even the Chevy Trax is a great product because of the sheer impossibility of its value proposition: nobody can compete with the amount of things that vehicle gives you for the price. Ford half-assed their sedans and bowed out of that market and now their supposed focus on SUVs is not good enough because none of their SUVs, gas or electric or hybrid, give you any reason to buy them. They are half-assing all their vehicles until they reach their inevitable demise. Why is anyone buying an Expedition over a Telluride, Grand Highlander, or Chevy Suburban derivative? Why is anyone buying an Explorer over a RAV4, CRV, etc. The only thing Ford makes that’s any good is the F-150, Maverick, Bronco and Mustang (very niche). This means they have basically zero cars to sell outside the US. [1] Yes, better than Tesla and Lucid: more luxurious and isolated with better interior materials, fewer reliability problems, better ergonomics and physical controls, stronger dealer and service network.
  - Marsymars 11mo ago
    IMO the hybrid Explorer is underrated, the pricing is good and it's got the same type of eCVT as the Rav4 hybrid.
    - dangus 11mo ago
      lol, gotta disagree on that one. RAV4 and other Toyotas have insanely good residuals that make up for any upfront price difference, and you don’t look like a cop all the time when you drive around town. The Explorer is incredibly dated at 5 years since the last refresh with the RAV4 getting a refresh/redesign this year. Every reviewer I’ve seen knocks the Explorer for lack of interior refinement. No need for a CVT when you can get a Mazda CX-90 with a real transmission. But I’d also take a Grand Highlander over an Explorer any day. Predicted reliability of Ford vehicles is a joke compared to Toyota. You’d actually get a more reliable car with a BMW, it’s embarrassing. If you don’t believe me pay attention and count how many 1st generation Ford Fusions are on the road versus second generation Toyota Priuses. The Prius is bulletproof. The Fords are in junkyards.
      - Marsymars 11mo ago
        edit: Oh, crap, I mixed up the Explorer/Escape because the Escape is the Rav4/CRV competitor. I think the Escape is underrated. Not particularly familiar with the Explorer. eCVT and CVT aren't mechanically similar. Personally, I'd only consider cars with manual/eCVT/EV transmissions. > RAV4 and other Toyotas have insanely good residuals that make up for any upfront price difference Yeah, that's a consideration if you frequently flip your cars, I kinda forget about that because me and most of the people I know keep their cars long-term. e.g. I just got rid of a 2011 Fiesta - there isn't enough residual value maintenance savings in a 2011 Yaris for me to have ever come out ahead with one of those.
        dangus 11mo ago
        Unfortunately by correcting your misremembering, I’m even less convinced. The Escape is even further down the ladder in its crowded and competitive class of vehicle. The Escape isn’t underrated it’s just rated properly. There’s like 6 or so cars that rank above it for various reasons: CRV, RAV4, Sportage, CX-5/CX-50, Forester. Even Mitsubishi put out a better vehicle than Ford with the Outlander if we go by Car and Driver’s scores. I’m sure you can get one with some sick discounts but Ford also has company there with Nissan, Mitsubishi, Chevrolet, and I’ve even heard Mazda runs strong discounts depending on the dealer.
isnthatveird 11mo ago
Why did they throw away the Soybean/Hemp car patent, in the 1940s? Soybean car https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soybean_car https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soybean_car Were they corrupted by oil and war to sell it?
- isnthatveird 11mo ago
  Solid state batteries solve for EV trucks. The Chevy Silverado EV truck wins at towing but not being towed, FWIU. They could have won with a bad EV platform to have just used the existing F-150 part streams. Did GM intentionally or accidentally squander EVs with the EV1? How could firms encourage EV conversions of trucks in order to get this solved?
- philodeon 11mo ago
  Consider that a car made of plastic is something that only works pre-Ralph Nader. Now the NTSB would veto it in milliseconds.
  - RandallBrown 11mo ago
    Wasn't the entire Saturn brand built on plastic car panels?
  - PlunderBunny 11mo ago
    The Slate Auto pickup will have plastic panels [0] - I assume they're not expecting to be shot down by the NTSB. 0. https://www.topgear.com/car-news/video/everything-you-need-know-about-jeff-bezos-20000-pickup-truck https://www.topgear.com/car-news/video/everything-you-need-k...
alephnerd 11mo ago
I mean, the reduction of industrial subsidizes for EVs globally [0] along with recent supply chain scares [1] have made the economics for EVs much more difficult recently [2]. This should not be construed as "EVs are dying" but as I keep saying, EVs are going thru the same cycle that Hybrid ICE went thru 15 years ago. Assuming a 0 to 100% EV transition would happen globally in a handful of years is dumb. Heck, even Chinese automotive manufacturers primarily export ICE vehicles globally [3]. The transition will happen both slower than EV fundamentalists and faster than ICE fundamentalists assume. [0] - https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/climate-energy/global-ev-sales-growth-slowest-since-feb-2024-china-plateau-us-policy-changes-2025-12-12/ https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/climate-energy/global... [1] - https://www.reuters.com/world/china/china-tightens-rare-earth-export-controls-2025-10-09/ https://www.reuters.com/world/china/china-tightens-rare-eart... [2] - https://www.spglobal.com/automotive-insights/en/blogs/2025/11/ev-battery-supply-chain-under-pressure https://www.spglobal.com/automotive-insights/en/blogs/2025/1... [3] - https://www.reuters.com/investigations/china-floods-world-with-gasoline-cars-it-cant-sell-home-2025-12-02/ https://www.reuters.com/investigations/china-floods-world-wi...
chrisBob 11mo ago
Electric pickup trucks are hard, mostly because they need to fill an imaginary, or aspirational use case. More than 99% of the pickup truck miles in the US could be filled by an electric truck with a 150 mile range that people charge at home. But no one will buy that truck because of the desire to take long trips, and potentially tow a long distance. The driving and ownership experience of electric vehicles is MUCH better, but it is hard to convince buyers to try it out.
- ubermonkey 11mo ago
  Not for nothing but this is also one of the reasons electric motorcycles are lagging. A HUUUUUGE number of motorcycles never go more than 50-75 miles in a day. CycleTrader is awash with 3,4,and 5 year old bikes that have barely been ridden. A 100 mile range electric bike (e.g., the Harley Livewire) would 100% fill those needs. But people think they're gonna go on long trips, or whatever, or ride more, and they scoff at a bike you can't ride all day even though they'll never actually ride a bike all day.
  - l1tany11 11mo ago
    I think you’re way off tbh. Something like 85% of the motorcycle market is for pleasure. Plenty of those bikes have a range of only ~100 miles as it is. Stopping is not really the problem. The problem is the charging infrastructure does not exist and the charge times are way too long. Do some motorcycle owners commute on their bikes? Of course, but that’s clearly the minority of the market. The reason cycle trader is full of low mileage bikes is that the whole activity is kind of a pain in the ass when you think about it. Add charging to that and it’s just too much to bear. Pleasure riders often ride on nice sunny sundays in groups to ruralish areas where it’s scenic and the roads are winding with few traffic lights etc. they need to be able to “gas up” a significant number of bikes quickly. And that shit is a pain to organize so they do it like twice a year. Hence the low mileage. Electric motorcycles really are a super hard sell. The stark varg makes way more sense cause that’s a type of motorcycle that gets carried to the destination most of the time anyway. So the range thing is way less of an issue and the upsides stand out way more. That’s probably why I see way, way more Vargs or bikes like them than live wires.
jp191919 11mo ago
>with the Lightning (and the overall EV market) in trouble What? Global EV sales are up 21% in 2025. Maybe lightning sales are down, but not overall EV sales.
- alephnerd 11mo ago
  > Global EV sales are up 21% in 2025 The issue is, that rate of growth globally is not enough to sustain the capex spent on building EV manufacturing capacity in 2019-24. Much of that growth was itself due to China, where EV sales growth is starting to taper down making the financials difficult [0]. Growth alone is not enough - what matters is margins. If the rate of growth cannot sustain COGS, then production is right-sized. Heck, even back in China a major reason BYD has been so successful is because it was able to subsidize it's initial foray into EV vehicles by becoming the primary smartphone battery vendor for Apple, Samsung, and other vendors in the 2000s. Traditional automotive majors lacked similarly high margins businesses to help cushion the upfront cost of building out capacity. This isn't to say EVs are "dead", but the transition will not happen overnight. It took Hybrid cars 10-15 years to go mainstream, and imo EVs today are in the same position where Hybrid cars were in the 2013-16 period. A lot of shifts are happening in battery chemistry (eg. solid state battery manufacturing capex becoming mainstream) along with component manufacturing (eg. Capex for mass producing EESMs). I remain optimistic, but the histrionics some EV fanatics make is equally as grating/annoying as ICE fanatics. [0] - https://www.eiu.com/n/blogs/auto-2026-outlook/ https://www.eiu.com/n/blogs/auto-2026-outlook/
kotaKat 11mo ago
Still wonder when Ford can bring back at least one damn sedan in the lineup. It’s embarassing that https://www.ford.com/cars/fusion/ https://www.ford.com/cars/fusion/ has a link to “explore all sedan vehicles” that dumps you right into the exciting selection of SUVs.
- bluGill 11mo ago
  Does anyone make an electric Sedan for sale in the US? I'm starting to look and all I can find are SUV - I own a truck already, I want back in a car. Preferably something without too much power (My kids will be driving age soon).
  - jerlam 11mo ago
    The Tesla Model 3 and the Hyundai Ioniq 6 are EV sedans. The Ioniq 5 / Kia EV6 are called SUVs mainly for marketing purposes and are more wagon-like.
- red-iron-pine 11mo ago
  that ship has sailed mon ami. Ford also makes parts for Mazda and is letting them expand in that field. If you want a Ford Sedan then get a Mazda 3 edit: actually that's not true anymore, glad I checked. but the Mazda 3 is a pretty solid replacement for a Fusion or Focus

36 points by zdw 11mo ago

Not surprised. They pulled back out of the EU and other markets like South America and BYD opened up an assembly plant in Brazil. Turn back the clock and Ford ruled the EU with saloons like the Escort, Mondeo and later the Focus - they were caught unawares with shift to compact SUV's and had the popular Ecosport but never invested in the product line and it was left to wither and die. They are teaming up with Renault to use their EV platform to maintain a token presence in the EU but consumers today are smarter and more informed and will not buy badge engineered Fords.

dangus 11mo ago
The formula is so simple, but complicated to achieve underneath: sell the best products. That’s all you have to do. But so many companies resort to financial games and short term business gimmicks rather than believing that they can make the best products and putting focus and drive into that goal (not just money!) Stellantis can make great products but for the most part they just won’t. They actively refuse to. Same deal with Ford. GM is doing well with EVs because they actually make good products. The Silverado EV is the best EV truck on the market, Cadillac makes the best luxury EVs on the market[1], and the Honda Prologue (made by GM) is a sales star because it’s a good product that knows its market. Even the Chevy Trax is a great product because of the sheer impossibility of its value proposition: nobody can compete with the amount of things that vehicle gives you for the price. Ford half-assed their sedans and bowed out of that market and now their supposed focus on SUVs is not good enough because none of their SUVs, gas or electric or hybrid, give you any reason to buy them. They are half-assing all their vehicles until they reach their inevitable demise. Why is anyone buying an Expedition over a Telluride, Grand Highlander, or Chevy Suburban derivative? Why is anyone buying an Explorer over a RAV4, CRV, etc. The only thing Ford makes that’s any good is the F-150, Maverick, Bronco and Mustang (very niche). This means they have basically zero cars to sell outside the US. [1] Yes, better than Tesla and Lucid: more luxurious and isolated with better interior materials, fewer reliability problems, better ergonomics and physical controls, stronger dealer and service network.
- Marsymars 11mo ago
  IMO the hybrid Explorer is underrated, the pricing is good and it's got the same type of eCVT as the Rav4 hybrid.
  - dangus 11mo ago
    lol, gotta disagree on that one. RAV4 and other Toyotas have insanely good residuals that make up for any upfront price difference, and you don’t look like a cop all the time when you drive around town. The Explorer is incredibly dated at 5 years since the last refresh with the RAV4 getting a refresh/redesign this year. Every reviewer I’ve seen knocks the Explorer for lack of interior refinement. No need for a CVT when you can get a Mazda CX-90 with a real transmission. But I’d also take a Grand Highlander over an Explorer any day. Predicted reliability of Ford vehicles is a joke compared to Toyota. You’d actually get a more reliable car with a BMW, it’s embarrassing. If you don’t believe me pay attention and count how many 1st generation Ford Fusions are on the road versus second generation Toyota Priuses. The Prius is bulletproof. The Fords are in junkyards.
    - Marsymars 11mo ago
      edit: Oh, crap, I mixed up the Explorer/Escape because the Escape is the Rav4/CRV competitor. I think the Escape is underrated. Not particularly familiar with the Explorer. eCVT and CVT aren't mechanically similar. Personally, I'd only consider cars with manual/eCVT/EV transmissions. > RAV4 and other Toyotas have insanely good residuals that make up for any upfront price difference Yeah, that's a consideration if you frequently flip your cars, I kinda forget about that because me and most of the people I know keep their cars long-term. e.g. I just got rid of a 2011 Fiesta - there isn't enough residual value maintenance savings in a 2011 Yaris for me to have ever come out ahead with one of those.
      - dangus 11mo ago
        Unfortunately by correcting your misremembering, I’m even less convinced. The Escape is even further down the ladder in its crowded and competitive class of vehicle. The Escape isn’t underrated it’s just rated properly. There’s like 6 or so cars that rank above it for various reasons: CRV, RAV4, Sportage, CX-5/CX-50, Forester. Even Mitsubishi put out a better vehicle than Ford with the Outlander if we go by Car and Driver’s scores. I’m sure you can get one with some sick discounts but Ford also has company there with Nissan, Mitsubishi, Chevrolet, and I’ve even heard Mazda runs strong discounts depending on the dealer.

isnthatveird 11mo ago

Why did they throw away the Soybean/Hemp car patent, in the 1940s? Soybean car https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soybean_car https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soybean_car Were they corrupted by oil and war to sell it?

isnthatveird 11mo ago
Solid state batteries solve for EV trucks. The Chevy Silverado EV truck wins at towing but not being towed, FWIU. They could have won with a bad EV platform to have just used the existing F-150 part streams. Did GM intentionally or accidentally squander EVs with the EV1? How could firms encourage EV conversions of trucks in order to get this solved?
philodeon 11mo ago
Consider that a car made of plastic is something that only works pre-Ralph Nader. Now the NTSB would veto it in milliseconds.
- RandallBrown 11mo ago
  Wasn't the entire Saturn brand built on plastic car panels?
- PlunderBunny 11mo ago
  The Slate Auto pickup will have plastic panels [0] - I assume they're not expecting to be shot down by the NTSB. 0. https://www.topgear.com/car-news/video/everything-you-need-know-about-jeff-bezos-20000-pickup-truck https://www.topgear.com/car-news/video/everything-you-need-k...

alephnerd 11mo ago

I mean, the reduction of industrial subsidizes for EVs globally [0] along with recent supply chain scares [1] have made the economics for EVs much more difficult recently [2]. This should not be construed as "EVs are dying" but as I keep saying, EVs are going thru the same cycle that Hybrid ICE went thru 15 years ago. Assuming a 0 to 100% EV transition would happen globally in a handful of years is dumb. Heck, even Chinese automotive manufacturers primarily export ICE vehicles globally [3]. The transition will happen both slower than EV fundamentalists and faster than ICE fundamentalists assume. [0] - https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/climate-energy/global-ev-sales-growth-slowest-since-feb-2024-china-plateau-us-policy-changes-2025-12-12/ https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/climate-energy/global... [1] - https://www.reuters.com/world/china/china-tightens-rare-earth-export-controls-2025-10-09/ https://www.reuters.com/world/china/china-tightens-rare-eart... [2] - https://www.spglobal.com/automotive-insights/en/blogs/2025/11/ev-battery-supply-chain-under-pressure https://www.spglobal.com/automotive-insights/en/blogs/2025/1... [3] - https://www.reuters.com/investigations/china-floods-world-with-gasoline-cars-it-cant-sell-home-2025-12-02/ https://www.reuters.com/investigations/china-floods-world-wi...

chrisBob 11mo ago

Electric pickup trucks are hard, mostly because they need to fill an imaginary, or aspirational use case. More than 99% of the pickup truck miles in the US could be filled by an electric truck with a 150 mile range that people charge at home. But no one will buy that truck because of the desire to take long trips, and potentially tow a long distance. The driving and ownership experience of electric vehicles is MUCH better, but it is hard to convince buyers to try it out.

ubermonkey 11mo ago
Not for nothing but this is also one of the reasons electric motorcycles are lagging. A HUUUUUGE number of motorcycles never go more than 50-75 miles in a day. CycleTrader is awash with 3,4,and 5 year old bikes that have barely been ridden. A 100 mile range electric bike (e.g., the Harley Livewire) would 100% fill those needs. But people think they're gonna go on long trips, or whatever, or ride more, and they scoff at a bike you can't ride all day even though they'll never actually ride a bike all day.
- l1tany11 11mo ago
  I think you’re way off tbh. Something like 85% of the motorcycle market is for pleasure. Plenty of those bikes have a range of only ~100 miles as it is. Stopping is not really the problem. The problem is the charging infrastructure does not exist and the charge times are way too long. Do some motorcycle owners commute on their bikes? Of course, but that’s clearly the minority of the market. The reason cycle trader is full of low mileage bikes is that the whole activity is kind of a pain in the ass when you think about it. Add charging to that and it’s just too much to bear. Pleasure riders often ride on nice sunny sundays in groups to ruralish areas where it’s scenic and the roads are winding with few traffic lights etc. they need to be able to “gas up” a significant number of bikes quickly. And that shit is a pain to organize so they do it like twice a year. Hence the low mileage. Electric motorcycles really are a super hard sell. The stark varg makes way more sense cause that’s a type of motorcycle that gets carried to the destination most of the time anyway. So the range thing is way less of an issue and the upsides stand out way more. That’s probably why I see way, way more Vargs or bikes like them than live wires.

jp191919 11mo ago

>with the Lightning (and the overall EV market) in trouble What? Global EV sales are up 21% in 2025. Maybe lightning sales are down, but not overall EV sales.

alephnerd 11mo ago
> Global EV sales are up 21% in 2025 The issue is, that rate of growth globally is not enough to sustain the capex spent on building EV manufacturing capacity in 2019-24. Much of that growth was itself due to China, where EV sales growth is starting to taper down making the financials difficult [0]. Growth alone is not enough - what matters is margins. If the rate of growth cannot sustain COGS, then production is right-sized. Heck, even back in China a major reason BYD has been so successful is because it was able to subsidize it's initial foray into EV vehicles by becoming the primary smartphone battery vendor for Apple, Samsung, and other vendors in the 2000s. Traditional automotive majors lacked similarly high margins businesses to help cushion the upfront cost of building out capacity. This isn't to say EVs are "dead", but the transition will not happen overnight. It took Hybrid cars 10-15 years to go mainstream, and imo EVs today are in the same position where Hybrid cars were in the 2013-16 period. A lot of shifts are happening in battery chemistry (eg. solid state battery manufacturing capex becoming mainstream) along with component manufacturing (eg. Capex for mass producing EESMs). I remain optimistic, but the histrionics some EV fanatics make is equally as grating/annoying as ICE fanatics. [0] - https://www.eiu.com/n/blogs/auto-2026-outlook/ https://www.eiu.com/n/blogs/auto-2026-outlook/

kotaKat 11mo ago

Still wonder when Ford can bring back at least one damn sedan in the lineup. It’s embarassing that https://www.ford.com/cars/fusion/ https://www.ford.com/cars/fusion/ has a link to “explore all sedan vehicles” that dumps you right into the exciting selection of SUVs.

bluGill 11mo ago
Does anyone make an electric Sedan for sale in the US? I'm starting to look and all I can find are SUV - I own a truck already, I want back in a car. Preferably something without too much power (My kids will be driving age soon).
- jerlam 11mo ago
  The Tesla Model 3 and the Hyundai Ioniq 6 are EV sedans. The Ioniq 5 / Kia EV6 are called SUVs mainly for marketing purposes and are more wagon-like.
red-iron-pine 11mo ago
that ship has sailed mon ami. Ford also makes parts for Mazda and is letting them expand in that field. If you want a Ford Sedan then get a Mazda 3 edit: actually that's not true anymore, glad I checked. but the Mazda 3 is a pretty solid replacement for a Fusion or Focus