7 ms·

I have used Firefox as my default browser through thick and thin for damn near two decades. If Mozilla killed andblocking extensions I’d switch to Helium Brows

I have used Firefox as my default browser through thick and thin for damn near two decades. If Mozilla killed andblocking extensions I’d switch to Helium Browser in a heartbeat since they’re maintaining manifest v2 support for uBO and even ship it OOTB. The web is unusable without a proper Adblock.

9cb14c1ec0 10mo ago
> The web is unusable without a proper Adblock. It's a privacy nightmare as well. Few people reason how much data they give away to a host of shady companies just by letting ads display.
- drfolgers 10mo ago
  Ads and page level analytics aren’t the only thing gathering data. There is server-side now (and previously) hosted by the site owner. It’s a lost cause to fight this. I admire you all for using FF because uBO just for the experience, but it’s only a partial data block. Serverside and thumbprinting- you can’t be anonymous even with Tor, VPN, etc.
  - xedrac 10mo ago
    Any privacy benefits of blocking ads are incidental compared to the usability improvements it brings. I have near zero tolerance for ads.
  - cons0le 10mo ago
    uBo + tamper monkey is needed just to block popups. Adblock on brave is basically non existent compared to uBO
  - ekianjo 10mo ago
    Blocking even part of it is a win. Not sure why we should treat this as a dichotomy
- ghssds 10mo ago
  > It's a privacy nightmare as well. Few people reason how much data they give away to a host of shady companies just by letting ads display. Imagine all the data Cloudflare vacuums.
- psychoslave 10mo ago
  It's kind of crazy that a popup like "we and our 1244 partners want to share your data to better serve you". That's the kind of dystopian event you would think only visible as caricatural SF, but it's the kind of thing one can actually see on a daily level just browsing around.
  - Podrod 10mo ago
    They really take the piss, even supposedly essential cookies get lumbered with hundreds of "partners" with "legitimate interests" harvesting your data.
LtdJorge 10mo ago
Exactly. And I’m one of those that uses Firefox sync, and prefers all the things Firefox comes with, including the developer tools. The only thing it lacks is the integrated Google Lighthouse reporting.
tim333 10mo ago
Though uBlock Origin Lite in Chrome actually works quite well.
chrisweekly 10mo ago
Thanks for referencing Helium -- it looks great!
socalgal2 10mo ago
I close any website covered in ads. Problem solved
- kevin_thibedeau 10mo ago
  Except by that point you've executed all their JavaScript. The FBI recommends ad blockers as a safety measure. Bouncing on the site still exposes you to risk.
t23414321 10mo ago
The web was usable without JavaScript once. (JS has few good uses, but is too excessive. Less code is always better - and an art.)
- mghackerlady 10mo ago
  Is there an extension that limits JS to things that actually improve websites (like the bare minimum needed to render a page usable under most metrics)
  - immibis 10mo ago
    NoScript, but you can only control it per domain.
    - kirth_gersen 10mo ago
      +1 for NoScript. It is kind of a pain for the first few days when you have to spend 10-30 seconds reloading sites to allow the minimum needed. It is also eye opening to see how much bloat is added and how fast pages load without all the extra bs.
      - mghackerlady 10mo ago
        Thats my problem though, I don't want to have to allow the minimum for each site. I wish there was a noscript-like extension that used a public database of sorts to allow what's needed and block everything else, including things that are "needed" but suck so bad you shouldn't use the site
  - t23414321 10mo ago
    That would be (progressive??) XBL. (!) (- it's kind of behavior extension on tag level, yet has JS - and it's orthogonal, like CSS or XSLT (BTW. see that hack: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41245159 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41245159), unlike JS which is.. untamed and invasive; i.e. there is video (any) tag but you could (+)DIY not touching the document - like custom playing with MPlayer or VLC as a plugin there for all AV formats or sorting filtering editing whatever, all aside custompacks? :) - or, what about the other way, like a firewall ??
glenstein 10mo ago
>If Mozilla killed andblocking extensions Yeah but they haven't and they're not going to, so what's the point of fantasizing about what you would do in that situation? It's like tough guy syndrome, where a person constantly fantasizes about what they would do in the imaginary situation where one of their friends or family is disrespected, or doomsday preppers who spend their life imagining what they would do in an apocalypse that never comes. That stuff belongs on archiveofourown.com, not news.ycombinator.com.
- matthewkayin 10mo ago
  Relax, man. It's perfectly reasonable to say that you would stop using a browser if they killed adblock support. Saying so is not "tough guy" syndrome because switching which browser you use is not a tough thing to do.
  - glenstein 10mo ago
    It is tough guy syndrome, because it's projecting a hypothetical scenario to performatively declare what you would do in that hypothetical, attempting to hold a third party accountable for something they're not actually doing. Try to follow the ball instead of lecturing me to relax ;)
    - LtWorf 10mo ago
      Did you read the post? They are clearly considering doing it.
      - stephen_g 10mo ago
        Yeah, otherwise it’d weird the new CEO had such a precise idea of the amount of money it could bring in. It makes it sound like Mozilla definitely had either considered offers from advertisers or done the maths themselves to work out potential revenue. And for the record, as a Firefox user, count me in with the others who would switch and just use Safari on my Mac if they went through with it!
FuriouslyAdrift 10mo ago
There's also Palemoon...
samgranieri 10mo ago
have you tried using pi-hole or adblock plus running on a raspberry pi on your network? whenever i'm off my home wifi network, i have wireguard configured to connect home and get me that ad blocking. it's so nice. yes, i prefer to use brave for personal stuff and i use edge for work stuff (reasons,,, don't ask)
- throwaway613745 10mo ago
  I ran AdGuard Home for a while but it was causing too many problems for everyone else at home so I stopped. These days I’m using AdGuard on iOS and ublock origin with Firefox on everything else.
  - doubled112 10mo ago
    It took me a long time to get the allow lists dialed in, but I think it was still worth it. My wife may disagree since she was the most common victim. It amazes me that every link the kid's school sends is a tracking link, and not always the same tracker.
- timeinput 10mo ago
  It's definitely better than nothing, and greatly improves things, but UBO is better. Try watching a youtube video in a browser with UBO, and the android app on a network with pi-hole, etc.
1vuio0pswjnm7 10mo ago
"The web is unusable without a proper Adblock" Unusable for the commenter perhaps, based on his choices, but not unusable in an absolute sense For example, I have been using the web without an adblock for several decades.^1 I see no ads Adblocking is only necessary when one uses a popular graphical web browser When I use an HTTP generator and a TCP client then no "adblock" is necessary When I use a text-only browser then no "adblock" is necessary Websites that comprise "the web" are only one half of the ad delivery system The other half is the client <--- user choice Firefox is controlled and distribuited by an entity that advocates for a "healthy online advertising ecosystem" and sends search query data to an online advertising services company called Google in exchange for payment. Ex-Mozilla employees left to join Google and start another browser called "Chrome" These browsers are designed to deliver advertising. That's why an "adblock" extension is needed When one uses a client that is not controlled and distributed by a company that profits from advertising services, that is not designed to deliver advertising, then an "adblock" may not be needed. I also control DNS and use a local forward proxy The web is "usable" with such clients. For example, I read all HN submissions using clients that do not deliver or display ads. I am submitting this comment without using a popular graphical web browser 1. Obviously there are some exceptions, e.g., online banking, e-commerce, etc. For me, this is a small minority of web usage The web is usuable with a variety of clients, not only the ones designed to deliver ads
- blubber 10mo ago
  "When I use a text-only browser then no "adblock" is necessary" So you browser as if it were 1999? Yup, no ads back then.
  - invaliduser 10mo ago
    The first ad blocker was released in 1996 [1] and in 1999 we had a lot of shiny, blinking and very colorful ads already [2] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_blocking#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_blocking#History [2] https://www.webdesignmuseum.org/exhibitions/web-banners-in-the-90s https://www.webdesignmuseum.org/exhibitions/web-banners-in-t...
SirMaster 10mo ago
>The web is unusable without a proper Adblock. And yet somehow most people in the world use it every day without an adblocker...
- ghssds 10mo ago
  How many limit themselves to a few apps owned by the GAFAM?
- LargoLasskhyfv 10mo ago
  Trillions of flies eat shit...
deepspace 10mo ago
The one and only time I ever got a machine infected with malware in my 30+ years of using the internet was when I fell for Forbes.com's request to please disable my adblocker. I promptly got hit by a trojan carried in one of their unvetted ads. Browsing without an adblocker is a critical security issue, and I will drop Firefox without a second thought if they ever cripple blockers like Google did.
- cdaringe 10mo ago
  Tell us more about the web ad based trojan!
  - 3eb7988a1663 10mo ago
    I am also really curious how GP was able to pinpoint the event. Or was it more, "Well this is the one weird thing I did on my machine this week."
danudey 10mo ago
I tried switching to Ungoogled Chromium lately but had to switch back because, even on 32 GB of RAM, having another chromium process running meant that all my apps were getting killed left right and centre. Do too much browsing and VS Code gets killed. Restart VS Code and do a build and Slack gets killed. Open Zoom and Chromium gets killed. Now I'm back to Firefox again and nothing has died so far.

9cb14c1ec0 10mo ago

> The web is unusable without a proper Adblock. It's a privacy nightmare as well. Few people reason how much data they give away to a host of shady companies just by letting ads display.

drfolgers 10mo ago
Ads and page level analytics aren’t the only thing gathering data. There is server-side now (and previously) hosted by the site owner. It’s a lost cause to fight this. I admire you all for using FF because uBO just for the experience, but it’s only a partial data block. Serverside and thumbprinting- you can’t be anonymous even with Tor, VPN, etc.
- xedrac 10mo ago
  Any privacy benefits of blocking ads are incidental compared to the usability improvements it brings. I have near zero tolerance for ads.
- cons0le 10mo ago
  uBo + tamper monkey is needed just to block popups. Adblock on brave is basically non existent compared to uBO
- ekianjo 10mo ago
  Blocking even part of it is a win. Not sure why we should treat this as a dichotomy
ghssds 10mo ago
> It's a privacy nightmare as well. Few people reason how much data they give away to a host of shady companies just by letting ads display. Imagine all the data Cloudflare vacuums.
psychoslave 10mo ago
It's kind of crazy that a popup like "we and our 1244 partners want to share your data to better serve you". That's the kind of dystopian event you would think only visible as caricatural SF, but it's the kind of thing one can actually see on a daily level just browsing around.
- Podrod 10mo ago
  They really take the piss, even supposedly essential cookies get lumbered with hundreds of "partners" with "legitimate interests" harvesting your data.

LtdJorge 10mo ago

Exactly. And I’m one of those that uses Firefox sync, and prefers all the things Firefox comes with, including the developer tools. The only thing it lacks is the integrated Google Lighthouse reporting.

tim333 10mo ago

Though uBlock Origin Lite in Chrome actually works quite well.

chrisweekly 10mo ago

Thanks for referencing Helium -- it looks great!

socalgal2 10mo ago

I close any website covered in ads. Problem solved

kevin_thibedeau 10mo ago
Except by that point you've executed all their JavaScript. The FBI recommends ad blockers as a safety measure. Bouncing on the site still exposes you to risk.

t23414321 10mo ago

The web was usable without JavaScript once. (JS has few good uses, but is too excessive. Less code is always better - and an art.)

mghackerlady 10mo ago
Is there an extension that limits JS to things that actually improve websites (like the bare minimum needed to render a page usable under most metrics)
- immibis 10mo ago
  NoScript, but you can only control it per domain.
  - kirth_gersen 10mo ago
    +1 for NoScript. It is kind of a pain for the first few days when you have to spend 10-30 seconds reloading sites to allow the minimum needed. It is also eye opening to see how much bloat is added and how fast pages load without all the extra bs.
    - mghackerlady 10mo ago
      Thats my problem though, I don't want to have to allow the minimum for each site. I wish there was a noscript-like extension that used a public database of sorts to allow what's needed and block everything else, including things that are "needed" but suck so bad you shouldn't use the site
- t23414321 10mo ago
  That would be (progressive??) XBL. (!) (- it's kind of behavior extension on tag level, yet has JS - and it's orthogonal, like CSS or XSLT (BTW. see that hack: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41245159 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41245159), unlike JS which is.. untamed and invasive; i.e. there is video (any) tag but you could (+)DIY not touching the document - like custom playing with MPlayer or VLC as a plugin there for all AV formats or sorting filtering editing whatever, all aside custompacks? :) - or, what about the other way, like a firewall ??

glenstein 10mo ago

>If Mozilla killed andblocking extensions Yeah but they haven't and they're not going to, so what's the point of fantasizing about what you would do in that situation? It's like tough guy syndrome, where a person constantly fantasizes about what they would do in the imaginary situation where one of their friends or family is disrespected, or doomsday preppers who spend their life imagining what they would do in an apocalypse that never comes. That stuff belongs on archiveofourown.com, not news.ycombinator.com.

matthewkayin 10mo ago
Relax, man. It's perfectly reasonable to say that you would stop using a browser if they killed adblock support. Saying so is not "tough guy" syndrome because switching which browser you use is not a tough thing to do.
- glenstein 10mo ago
  It is tough guy syndrome, because it's projecting a hypothetical scenario to performatively declare what you would do in that hypothetical, attempting to hold a third party accountable for something they're not actually doing. Try to follow the ball instead of lecturing me to relax ;)
  - LtWorf 10mo ago
    Did you read the post? They are clearly considering doing it.
    - stephen_g 10mo ago
      Yeah, otherwise it’d weird the new CEO had such a precise idea of the amount of money it could bring in. It makes it sound like Mozilla definitely had either considered offers from advertisers or done the maths themselves to work out potential revenue. And for the record, as a Firefox user, count me in with the others who would switch and just use Safari on my Mac if they went through with it!

FuriouslyAdrift 10mo ago

There's also Palemoon...

samgranieri 10mo ago

have you tried using pi-hole or adblock plus running on a raspberry pi on your network? whenever i'm off my home wifi network, i have wireguard configured to connect home and get me that ad blocking. it's so nice. yes, i prefer to use brave for personal stuff and i use edge for work stuff (reasons,,, don't ask)

throwaway613745 10mo ago
I ran AdGuard Home for a while but it was causing too many problems for everyone else at home so I stopped. These days I’m using AdGuard on iOS and ublock origin with Firefox on everything else.
- doubled112 10mo ago
  It took me a long time to get the allow lists dialed in, but I think it was still worth it. My wife may disagree since she was the most common victim. It amazes me that every link the kid's school sends is a tracking link, and not always the same tracker.
timeinput 10mo ago
It's definitely better than nothing, and greatly improves things, but UBO is better. Try watching a youtube video in a browser with UBO, and the android app on a network with pi-hole, etc.

1vuio0pswjnm7 10mo ago

"The web is unusable without a proper Adblock" Unusable for the commenter perhaps, based on his choices, but not unusable in an absolute sense For example, I have been using the web without an adblock for several decades.^1 I see no ads Adblocking is only necessary when one uses a popular graphical web browser When I use an HTTP generator and a TCP client then no "adblock" is necessary When I use a text-only browser then no "adblock" is necessary Websites that comprise "the web" are only one half of the ad delivery system The other half is the client <--- user choice Firefox is controlled and distribuited by an entity that advocates for a "healthy online advertising ecosystem" and sends search query data to an online advertising services company called Google in exchange for payment. Ex-Mozilla employees left to join Google and start another browser called "Chrome" These browsers are designed to deliver advertising. That's why an "adblock" extension is needed When one uses a client that is not controlled and distributed by a company that profits from advertising services, that is not designed to deliver advertising, then an "adblock" may not be needed. I also control DNS and use a local forward proxy The web is "usable" with such clients. For example, I read all HN submissions using clients that do not deliver or display ads. I am submitting this comment without using a popular graphical web browser 1. Obviously there are some exceptions, e.g., online banking, e-commerce, etc. For me, this is a small minority of web usage The web is usuable with a variety of clients, not only the ones designed to deliver ads

blubber 10mo ago
"When I use a text-only browser then no "adblock" is necessary" So you browser as if it were 1999? Yup, no ads back then.
- invaliduser 10mo ago
  The first ad blocker was released in 1996 [1] and in 1999 we had a lot of shiny, blinking and very colorful ads already [2] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_blocking#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_blocking#History [2] https://www.webdesignmuseum.org/exhibitions/web-banners-in-the-90s https://www.webdesignmuseum.org/exhibitions/web-banners-in-t...

SirMaster 10mo ago

>The web is unusable without a proper Adblock. And yet somehow most people in the world use it every day without an adblocker...

ghssds 10mo ago
How many limit themselves to a few apps owned by the GAFAM?
LargoLasskhyfv 10mo ago
Trillions of flies eat shit...

deepspace 10mo ago

The one and only time I ever got a machine infected with malware in my 30+ years of using the internet was when I fell for Forbes.com's request to please disable my adblocker. I promptly got hit by a trojan carried in one of their unvetted ads. Browsing without an adblocker is a critical security issue, and I will drop Firefox without a second thought if they ever cripple blockers like Google did.

cdaringe 10mo ago
Tell us more about the web ad based trojan!
- 3eb7988a1663 10mo ago
  I am also really curious how GP was able to pinpoint the event. Or was it more, "Well this is the one weird thing I did on my machine this week."

danudey 10mo ago

I tried switching to Ungoogled Chromium lately but had to switch back because, even on 32 GB of RAM, having another chromium process running meant that all my apps were getting killed left right and centre. Do too much browsing and VS Code gets killed. Restart VS Code and do a build and Slack gets killed. Open Zoom and Chromium gets killed. Now I'm back to Firefox again and nothing has died so far.