4 ms·

Vibe coding is the name for LLM assisted coding, whether you like it or not.

by closewith 10mo ago

Nashooo 10mo ago
One means (used to mean?) actually checking the LLM's output one means keep trying until it outputs does what you want.
- iwontberude 10mo ago
  Given that the models will attempt to check their own work with almost the identical verification that a human engineer would, it's hard to say if human's aren't implicitly checking by relying on the shared verification methods (e.g. let me run the tests, let me try to run the application with specific arguments to test if the behavior works).
  - ahtihn 10mo ago
    > Given that the models will attempt to check their own work with almost the identical verification that a human engineer would That's not the case at all though. The LLM doesn't have a mental model of what the expected final result is, so how could it possibly verify that? It has a description in text format of what the engineer thinks he wants. The text format is inherently limited and lossy and the engineer is unlikely to be perfect at expressing his expectations in any case.
- closewith 10mo ago
  That's the original context of the Andrej Karpathy comment, but it's just synonymous with LLM assisted coding now.
  - lukan 10mo ago
    Not yet, but the more you will insist, the more it will be. But what is your proposal for differentiating between just prompting without looking at code vs just using LLM to generate code?
    - closewith 10mo ago
      I'm not in favour of the definition, but like _hacker_, the battle is already lost.
observationist 10mo ago
Not all LLM assisted coding is vibe coding. Vibe coding goes something like , throw it a prompt, then repeat "it works" or "it doesn't work" or "it works, but I want Feature XYZ, also" or repeated "ok, but make it better." Vibe implies missing knowledge or experience - LLMs are a great equalizer, on the level of handguns or industrialization. Everyone can use them, some can use them well, and the value of using them well is enormous. A real SWE is going to say "ok, now build a new function doing XYZ" and in their agents.md they'll have their entire project specs and baseline prompt framework, with things like "document in the specified standard, create the unit test, document how the test integrates with the existing features, create a followup note on any potential interference with existing functionality, and update the todo.md" and so forth, with all the specific instructions and structure and subtasks and boring project management most of us wouldn't even know to think of. Doing it right takes a lot of setup and understanding how software projects should be run, and using the LLMs to do all the work they excel at doing, and not having them do the work they suck at. I only know the binary "that works" or not, for most things I've vibe coded. It'd be nice to have the breadth of knowledge and skills to do things right, but I also feel like it'd take a lot of the magic out of it too, lol.
- closewith 10mo ago
  While that was the original intent when Andrej Karpathy coined the term, it's now simply synonymous with LLM assisted coding. Like many previously pejorative terms, it's now become ubiquitous and lost its original meaning.
deleted 10mo ago
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ModernMech 10mo ago
I disagree, "vibe" characterizes how the LLM is being used, not that AI is being used at all. The vibe part means it's not rigorous. Using an LLM to autocomplete a line in an otherwise traditionally coded project would not be considered "vibe" coding, despite being AI assisted, because the programmer can easily read and verify the line is as correct as if they had typed it character by character.
- closewith 10mo ago
  That's the etymology, but it's now entered the general lexicon and that distinction had been lost.
  - ModernMech 10mo ago
    I don't think you can make an argument the definition is settled based on popular usage when the replies to your comment show there's still plenty of contention about what it means. It hasn't entered the general lexicon yet because most people have never heard it and could only guess at what it means. Not even my students agree on what vibe coding means and they're the ones who do it most. And regardless, terms of art can still have technical meanings distinct from the general lexicon (like "theory", or the example you used "hacker", which means something different around here).

Vibe coding is the name for LLM assisted coding, whether you like it or not.

Nashooo 10mo ago

One means (used to mean?) actually checking the LLM's output one means keep trying until it outputs does what you want.

iwontberude 10mo ago
Given that the models will attempt to check their own work with almost the identical verification that a human engineer would, it's hard to say if human's aren't implicitly checking by relying on the shared verification methods (e.g. let me run the tests, let me try to run the application with specific arguments to test if the behavior works).
- ahtihn 10mo ago
  > Given that the models will attempt to check their own work with almost the identical verification that a human engineer would That's not the case at all though. The LLM doesn't have a mental model of what the expected final result is, so how could it possibly verify that? It has a description in text format of what the engineer thinks he wants. The text format is inherently limited and lossy and the engineer is unlikely to be perfect at expressing his expectations in any case.
closewith 10mo ago
That's the original context of the Andrej Karpathy comment, but it's just synonymous with LLM assisted coding now.
- lukan 10mo ago
  Not yet, but the more you will insist, the more it will be. But what is your proposal for differentiating between just prompting without looking at code vs just using LLM to generate code?
  - closewith 10mo ago
    I'm not in favour of the definition, but like _hacker_, the battle is already lost.

observationist 10mo ago

Not all LLM assisted coding is vibe coding. Vibe coding goes something like , throw it a prompt, then repeat "it works" or "it doesn't work" or "it works, but I want Feature XYZ, also" or repeated "ok, but make it better." Vibe implies missing knowledge or experience - LLMs are a great equalizer, on the level of handguns or industrialization. Everyone can use them, some can use them well, and the value of using them well is enormous. A real SWE is going to say "ok, now build a new function doing XYZ" and in their agents.md they'll have their entire project specs and baseline prompt framework, with things like "document in the specified standard, create the unit test, document how the test integrates with the existing features, create a followup note on any potential interference with existing functionality, and update the todo.md" and so forth, with all the specific instructions and structure and subtasks and boring project management most of us wouldn't even know to think of. Doing it right takes a lot of setup and understanding how software projects should be run, and using the LLMs to do all the work they excel at doing, and not having them do the work they suck at. I only know the binary "that works" or not, for most things I've vibe coded. It'd be nice to have the breadth of knowledge and skills to do things right, but I also feel like it'd take a lot of the magic out of it too, lol.

closewith 10mo ago
While that was the original intent when Andrej Karpathy coined the term, it's now simply synonymous with LLM assisted coding. Like many previously pejorative terms, it's now become ubiquitous and lost its original meaning.

deleted 10mo ago

[deleted]

ModernMech 10mo ago

I disagree, "vibe" characterizes how the LLM is being used, not that AI is being used at all. The vibe part means it's not rigorous. Using an LLM to autocomplete a line in an otherwise traditionally coded project would not be considered "vibe" coding, despite being AI assisted, because the programmer can easily read and verify the line is as correct as if they had typed it character by character.

closewith 10mo ago
That's the etymology, but it's now entered the general lexicon and that distinction had been lost.
- ModernMech 10mo ago
  I don't think you can make an argument the definition is settled based on popular usage when the replies to your comment show there's still plenty of contention about what it means. It hasn't entered the general lexicon yet because most people have never heard it and could only guess at what it means. Not even my students agree on what vibe coding means and they're the ones who do it most. And regardless, terms of art can still have technical meanings distinct from the general lexicon (like "theory", or the example you used "hacker", which means something different around here).