4 ms·

If you think authoritarianism will lead to order and peace, you're gonna have a bad time. The presence of a secret police is already causing wide scale violatio

If you think authoritarianism will lead to order and peace, you're gonna have a bad time. The presence of a secret police is already causing wide scale violation of our constitutional rights.

jeffbee 10mo ago
It is not "secret police". The reason your car has a highly visible number plate is because for decades society has recognized its compelling interest in knowing the whereabouts of private vehicles.
- buellerbueller 10mo ago
  Masked, unidentified individuals abducting people are either kidnappers (if doing it without the law behind them) or secret police (if doing it with the law behind them). EDIT: Rather then downvote, offer an example of a masked, unidentified person abducting someone who is neither a kidnapper nor secret police.
- ypeterholmes 10mo ago
  Then why are they wearing masks?
  - 15155 10mo ago
    Probably so unhinged individuals don't show up at their homes and attack their families for performing unpopular law enforcement functions?
    - sethammons 10mo ago
      Interesting that record deportations under the Obama administration didn't spur such reactions to immigration enforcement at the time. Has there been any change in behavior by officials?
      - ypeterholmes 10mo ago
        Any change in behavior? Is that a joke? Setting aside the masked men terrorizing our communities, immigrants are being literally tortured inside camps across the country. They are being treated worse than criminals- tortured. Abused. What's happening right now is horrific, and the dehumanization propaganda can only be compared to Hitler's vilification of the jews.
    - ypeterholmes 10mo ago
      Setting aside their lawlessness, it sounds like we agree they are unidentifiable, meaning their identity is a secret. So they are a secret police. And you support that for some reason, maybe because you haven't read a single history book.
      - 15155 10mo ago
        Is this supposed to be some kind of "gotcha?" I don't really care about the language being used to describe this law enforcement agency: it isn't going to change my opinion about their mission or somehow change their legal ability to carry it out. You're right: because I do not want illegal immigrants in my country I haven't "read a single history book."
        ypeterholmes 10mo ago
        Nah, it's your support for lawless authoritarianism because you think it will improve your safety- that's the part you missed in history class. That's the con you are falling for. The truth is that once authoritarianism takes hold, nobody is safe. Many Germans who thought the Nazi's would only target "bad people" learned this the hard way.
- kyboren 10mo ago
  No, the ability to know the current whereabouts and location history of practically all private vehicles is a new capability afforded by deployment of ALPR mass surveillance. Previously, we had some balance between privacy and accountability. A bystander or a victim of a collision could remember license plate numbers and give them in a police report. The police could tail you (but only you, because $$$) to discover your movements. But government agents couldn't track the movements of all the people, all the time. Now they can. The societal balance of power has shifted and is now seriously lopsided in favor of the rulers. And cheerleaders like you don't mind, as long as you can purchase a little temporary safety...
immibis 10mo ago
You're making the assumption that widescale violation of our constitutional rights can't lead to order and peace.
- a456463 10mo ago
  Where has that actually happened?
  - aerostable_slug 10mo ago
    El Salvador is making a case for it, and other countries are paying attention.
rcpt 10mo ago
Getting ticketed for blowing through a red light isn't "authoritarianism"
- DaSHacka 10mo ago
  Nor is getting reinstated to your home country of origin when you are here illegitimatly.
- gs17 10mo ago
  This discussion isn't really about red light or speed cameras, although they suck in different ways. They are technically "license plate cameras", but they only capture for a specific purpose. ALPR cameras are about a surveillance dragnet over the whole city, tracking people who are not accused of anything.

If you think authoritarianism will lead to order and peace, you're gonna have a bad time. The presence of a secret police is already causing wide scale violation of our constitutional rights.

jeffbee 10mo ago

It is not "secret police". The reason your car has a highly visible number plate is because for decades society has recognized its compelling interest in knowing the whereabouts of private vehicles.

buellerbueller 10mo ago
Masked, unidentified individuals abducting people are either kidnappers (if doing it without the law behind them) or secret police (if doing it with the law behind them). EDIT: Rather then downvote, offer an example of a masked, unidentified person abducting someone who is neither a kidnapper nor secret police.
ypeterholmes 10mo ago
Then why are they wearing masks?
- 15155 10mo ago
  Probably so unhinged individuals don't show up at their homes and attack their families for performing unpopular law enforcement functions?
  - sethammons 10mo ago
    Interesting that record deportations under the Obama administration didn't spur such reactions to immigration enforcement at the time. Has there been any change in behavior by officials?
    - ypeterholmes 10mo ago
      Any change in behavior? Is that a joke? Setting aside the masked men terrorizing our communities, immigrants are being literally tortured inside camps across the country. They are being treated worse than criminals- tortured. Abused. What's happening right now is horrific, and the dehumanization propaganda can only be compared to Hitler's vilification of the jews.
  - ypeterholmes 10mo ago
    Setting aside their lawlessness, it sounds like we agree they are unidentifiable, meaning their identity is a secret. So they are a secret police. And you support that for some reason, maybe because you haven't read a single history book.
    - 15155 10mo ago
      Is this supposed to be some kind of "gotcha?" I don't really care about the language being used to describe this law enforcement agency: it isn't going to change my opinion about their mission or somehow change their legal ability to carry it out. You're right: because I do not want illegal immigrants in my country I haven't "read a single history book."
      - ypeterholmes 10mo ago
        Nah, it's your support for lawless authoritarianism because you think it will improve your safety- that's the part you missed in history class. That's the con you are falling for. The truth is that once authoritarianism takes hold, nobody is safe. Many Germans who thought the Nazi's would only target "bad people" learned this the hard way.
kyboren 10mo ago
No, the ability to know the current whereabouts and location history of practically all private vehicles is a new capability afforded by deployment of ALPR mass surveillance. Previously, we had some balance between privacy and accountability. A bystander or a victim of a collision could remember license plate numbers and give them in a police report. The police could tail you (but only you, because $$$) to discover your movements. But government agents couldn't track the movements of all the people, all the time. Now they can. The societal balance of power has shifted and is now seriously lopsided in favor of the rulers. And cheerleaders like you don't mind, as long as you can purchase a little temporary safety...

immibis 10mo ago

You're making the assumption that widescale violation of our constitutional rights can't lead to order and peace.

a456463 10mo ago
Where has that actually happened?
- aerostable_slug 10mo ago
  El Salvador is making a case for it, and other countries are paying attention.

rcpt 10mo ago

Getting ticketed for blowing through a red light isn't "authoritarianism"

DaSHacka 10mo ago
Nor is getting reinstated to your home country of origin when you are here illegitimatly.
gs17 10mo ago
This discussion isn't really about red light or speed cameras, although they suck in different ways. They are technically "license plate cameras", but they only capture for a specific purpose. ALPR cameras are about a surveillance dragnet over the whole city, tracking people who are not accused of anything.