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> Moreover, I’m not sure Germany, France, etc., voted to join the EU under the promise to sacrifice their own growth—they have significantly underperformed the

> Moreover, I’m not sure Germany, France, etc., voted to join the EU under the promise to sacrifice their own growth—they have significantly underperformed the U.S. over this time frame—to facilitate the development of eastern europe. Can you provide evidence that Germany, France, sacrificed their own growth? Unless you know something that I don't, what I see is that you're imagining a zero sum situation which is well known doesn't apply to things like markets. That they underperformed the US isn't not evidence of that. Germany and France underperformed the US in the time period, and in the last 100 years too.

rayiner 11mo ago
That's how I understood your thesis: "This was planned (called EU convergence), and is a victory of bureaucratic planning." If you don't think Germany and France sacrificed their own growth, what exactly do you think "EU convergence" means?
- immibis 11mo ago
  Why should I only grow 1.8% while you grow 2%, when it would be much fairer if we both grew 0%?
  - ekjhgkejhgk 11mo ago
    It's clear that you have no clue economics, as hinted by the comical numbers that you chose to pick for your disengenious example.
- ekjhgkejhgk 11mo ago
  > If you don't think Germany and France sacrificed their own growth, what exactly do you think "EU convergence" means? Convergence doesn't refer to growth rates approaching, but incomes (per capita) appproaching. It doesn't mean that the richer countries grow slower than otherwise. They might grow the same, or faster. The claim is something along the lines of: Without planned convergence: country G grows 2% per year starting from income of 30k/capita and country P grows %1 per year starting from income to 10k/capita. Country P will never approach country G in income/capita. With planned convergence: country G grows 2% per year starting from income of 30k/capita and country P grows %4 per year starting from income to 10k/capita. The two countries's income per capita will converge. Economics and counterfactuals are devilishily complicated subjects, but claim isn't complicated.
  - rayiner 11mo ago
    But what does any of that have to do with the EU or bureaucratic planning? It seems to me like Poland was poised to grow quickly as it transitioned from communism to capitalism with or without the EU.

rayiner 11mo ago

That's how I understood your thesis: "This was planned (called EU convergence), and is a victory of bureaucratic planning." If you don't think Germany and France sacrificed their own growth, what exactly do you think "EU convergence" means?

immibis 11mo ago
Why should I only grow 1.8% while you grow 2%, when it would be much fairer if we both grew 0%?
- ekjhgkejhgk 11mo ago
  It's clear that you have no clue economics, as hinted by the comical numbers that you chose to pick for your disengenious example.
ekjhgkejhgk 11mo ago
> If you don't think Germany and France sacrificed their own growth, what exactly do you think "EU convergence" means? Convergence doesn't refer to growth rates approaching, but incomes (per capita) appproaching. It doesn't mean that the richer countries grow slower than otherwise. They might grow the same, or faster. The claim is something along the lines of: Without planned convergence: country G grows 2% per year starting from income of 30k/capita and country P grows %1 per year starting from income to 10k/capita. Country P will never approach country G in income/capita. With planned convergence: country G grows 2% per year starting from income of 30k/capita and country P grows %4 per year starting from income to 10k/capita. The two countries's income per capita will converge. Economics and counterfactuals are devilishily complicated subjects, but claim isn't complicated.
- rayiner 11mo ago
  But what does any of that have to do with the EU or bureaucratic planning? It seems to me like Poland was poised to grow quickly as it transitioned from communism to capitalism with or without the EU.