4 ms·

They’re not in a position to completely ignore some of the current AI trends. That much I can wrap my head around. The seeming double down makes no sense to me

They’re not in a position to completely ignore some of the current AI trends. That much I can wrap my head around. The seeming double down makes no sense to me. It won’t suddenly make Mozilla more popular. It could be useful, yes, however I doubt it’ll be radically different from other implementations of AI + Browser in such a way that it stands above the others. What I wish they would realize in the Mozilla C-Suite is that there is real appetite browsers that get out of people’s way and focus on productivity. Given their small market share they could stand to grow by addressing that part of the market. Look at the previous success of Arc. They keep chasing trends instead of creating them. And while it is a hard job to do that, I feel they haven’t given it an earnest attempt in some time Firefox is still my daily browser of choice. I really want to see it do better and succeed

Noaidi 10mo ago
> What I wish they would realize in the Mozilla C-Suite is that there is real appetite browsers that get out of people’s way and focus on productivity. You cannot sell what cannot be seen. Business 101.
- no_wizard 10mo ago
  It can be seen though. Thats why I referred back to the Arc browser. People saw the real differences and it had fairly brisk adoption across a number of different type of folks, it didn't narrowly target technologists. Our designers, for example, at my last job, loved the heck out of it. It was good enough for Atlassian to buy the whole company for a good chunk of cash too, if I recall correctly. The abrupt ending of Arc's development has now left a hole in the market that Firefox could fill and gain marketshare.
  - Noaidi 10mo ago
    You are a power user if you are using Arc. I know a few people who do not even really understand what a browser is. Atlassian bought Arc to put AI in it by the way; "Welcoming The Browser Company to Atlassian Building the AI browser for knowledge workers" https://www.atlassian.com/blog/announcements/atlassian-acquires-the-browser-company https://www.atlassian.com/blog/announcements/atlassian-acqui...
    - no_wizard 10mo ago
      Power user is not equivalent to technologists, though they overlap. Making inroads into power user marketshare would be at least a modest increase in Firefox marketshare, given how small their current share is.
- jack_tripper 10mo ago
  Sell what? What is Mozilla hoping to selling here? Firefox is free.
  - rrr_oh_man 10mo ago
    Your data, presumably.
  - Noaidi 10mo ago
    Sorry, you are all missing the point. By "sell" I do not mena to make a profit, I mean, make it visible to the market. If firefox did its job and got out of the way, who would notice Firefox? It is hard to sell something with no "bells and whistles". Do you think it is a mistake that Liquid Glass exists? No. LG is there so you notice you are on an iPhone which uses to just get out of the way but now is just in my way all the time. Adding AI to Firefox is to make it visible in the market.
  - Zak 10mo ago
    Their main revenue is sending search traffic to Google. I imagine a near-future source will be paid subscriptions to LLM products that integrate tightly with the browser. Both of those require convincing people to use the browser, which is "selling" in the sense of persuasion even though there's no exchange of money at that point.
- msla 10mo ago
  Of course you can. People sell what they don't have all the time. Your cars are computerized death traps? Advertise their reliability. Your OS sends endless information back home to Apple? Advertise its privacy features. Your AI hallucinates? Advertise how useful it is for summarizing data.
dpoloncsak 10mo ago
The best part of Firefox, imo, is that its not just another chromium clone. Seems odd to try to copy the current trend, when they built such a base on being unique
jordanb 10mo ago
Mozilla is controlled by Google, they supply all the money and control the board. The board and executive suite are entirely SV VC types, no not-for-profit backgrounds, no free software backgrounds. Mozilla is controlled opposition for Google's monopoly.
1vuio0pswjnm7 10mo ago
"The seeming double down makes no sense to me." One of the findings Google shared as evidence in the DoJ's antitrust litigation was that Google's users consume "AI"-generated results more readily than "non-AI" results Mozilla gets paid by sending search query data to Google More user-facing "AI" potentially means more search data will be generated by (from) Mozilla's users The number of gratuitous HTTP requests generated by mobile Firefox is, to me, nothing less than astounding. All this traffic is blocked from reaching the internet on the computers and networks I own but I would imagine most Firefox users allow this traffic to escape. I suspect "AI" will only increase the number of automatically-generated HTTP requests even further "It won't suddenly make Firefox more popular." Perhaps the goal is not necessarily to increase the number of Firefox users but to "extract" more data from existing users "I really want to see it do better and succeed" For Mozilla's CEO and senior management it looks like Mozilla is succeeding Look at the steady increase in pay for Ms Baker https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/200097189/ https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/200... https://assets.mozilla.net/annualreport/2024/b200-mozilla-foundation-form-990-public-disclosure-ty23.pdf https://assets.mozilla.net/annualreport/2024/b200-mozilla-fo... Primarily, Mozilla serves website operators, advertisers and Google Generally, Firefox users are data sources and ad targets
niutech 10mo ago
> I doubt it’ll be radically different from other implementations of AI + Browser in such a way that it stands above the others. Mozilla distinguishes itself by allowing to use any AI, including open source private, local LLMs in their chatbot, not only proprietary Gemini like Chrome or Copilot like Edge. This is privacy-friendly.

Noaidi 10mo ago

> What I wish they would realize in the Mozilla C-Suite is that there is real appetite browsers that get out of people’s way and focus on productivity. You cannot sell what cannot be seen. Business 101.

no_wizard 10mo ago
It can be seen though. Thats why I referred back to the Arc browser. People saw the real differences and it had fairly brisk adoption across a number of different type of folks, it didn't narrowly target technologists. Our designers, for example, at my last job, loved the heck out of it. It was good enough for Atlassian to buy the whole company for a good chunk of cash too, if I recall correctly. The abrupt ending of Arc's development has now left a hole in the market that Firefox could fill and gain marketshare.
- Noaidi 10mo ago
  You are a power user if you are using Arc. I know a few people who do not even really understand what a browser is. Atlassian bought Arc to put AI in it by the way; "Welcoming The Browser Company to Atlassian Building the AI browser for knowledge workers" https://www.atlassian.com/blog/announcements/atlassian-acquires-the-browser-company https://www.atlassian.com/blog/announcements/atlassian-acqui...
  - no_wizard 10mo ago
    Power user is not equivalent to technologists, though they overlap. Making inroads into power user marketshare would be at least a modest increase in Firefox marketshare, given how small their current share is.
jack_tripper 10mo ago
Sell what? What is Mozilla hoping to selling here? Firefox is free.
- rrr_oh_man 10mo ago
  Your data, presumably.
- Noaidi 10mo ago
  Sorry, you are all missing the point. By "sell" I do not mena to make a profit, I mean, make it visible to the market. If firefox did its job and got out of the way, who would notice Firefox? It is hard to sell something with no "bells and whistles". Do you think it is a mistake that Liquid Glass exists? No. LG is there so you notice you are on an iPhone which uses to just get out of the way but now is just in my way all the time. Adding AI to Firefox is to make it visible in the market.
- Zak 10mo ago
  Their main revenue is sending search traffic to Google. I imagine a near-future source will be paid subscriptions to LLM products that integrate tightly with the browser. Both of those require convincing people to use the browser, which is "selling" in the sense of persuasion even though there's no exchange of money at that point.
msla 10mo ago
Of course you can. People sell what they don't have all the time. Your cars are computerized death traps? Advertise their reliability. Your OS sends endless information back home to Apple? Advertise its privacy features. Your AI hallucinates? Advertise how useful it is for summarizing data.

dpoloncsak 10mo ago

The best part of Firefox, imo, is that its not just another chromium clone. Seems odd to try to copy the current trend, when they built such a base on being unique

jordanb 10mo ago

Mozilla is controlled by Google, they supply all the money and control the board. The board and executive suite are entirely SV VC types, no not-for-profit backgrounds, no free software backgrounds. Mozilla is controlled opposition for Google's monopoly.

1vuio0pswjnm7 10mo ago

"The seeming double down makes no sense to me." One of the findings Google shared as evidence in the DoJ's antitrust litigation was that Google's users consume "AI"-generated results more readily than "non-AI" results Mozilla gets paid by sending search query data to Google More user-facing "AI" potentially means more search data will be generated by (from) Mozilla's users The number of gratuitous HTTP requests generated by mobile Firefox is, to me, nothing less than astounding. All this traffic is blocked from reaching the internet on the computers and networks I own but I would imagine most Firefox users allow this traffic to escape. I suspect "AI" will only increase the number of automatically-generated HTTP requests even further "It won't suddenly make Firefox more popular." Perhaps the goal is not necessarily to increase the number of Firefox users but to "extract" more data from existing users "I really want to see it do better and succeed" For Mozilla's CEO and senior management it looks like Mozilla is succeeding Look at the steady increase in pay for Ms Baker https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/200097189/ https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/200... https://assets.mozilla.net/annualreport/2024/b200-mozilla-foundation-form-990-public-disclosure-ty23.pdf https://assets.mozilla.net/annualreport/2024/b200-mozilla-fo... Primarily, Mozilla serves website operators, advertisers and Google Generally, Firefox users are data sources and ad targets

niutech 10mo ago

> I doubt it’ll be radically different from other implementations of AI + Browser in such a way that it stands above the others. Mozilla distinguishes itself by allowing to use any AI, including open source private, local LLMs in their chatbot, not only proprietary Gemini like Chrome or Copilot like Edge. This is privacy-friendly.