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The real problem is not the US no longer being the influence it was for "the west" (to simplify). The real problem is, what takes the space the US previously fi

The real problem is not the US no longer being the influence it was for "the west" (to simplify). The real problem is, what takes the space the US previously filled and still partly/mostly fills. The US are by no means innocent of terrorism and invasion of other countries, but at least with countries commonly counted as "the west", the US was a friendly nation. If we have the likes of terrorist states like Russia taking over, then we got some very dark times ahead of us. Even worse, if the right wing and right extreme talking points and policies in the US don't stop, we might face the (still) strongest military on the planet becoming the arm of a fascist state. It might even get worse than the WW2, since the US military is probably more superior compared to almost any other nation on the planet, than Nazi Germany's military was, and already has presence in basically all parts of the world, plus the logistics. So lets hope that the current period of idiocy ends soon, and we can get back to peaceful international relations, with a sane US leadership, instead of one, that seemingly seeks to tear down as many bridges as possible. However, we are only in year one (!) of the current US government, so we will probably have to hold out breath a little longer, and Europe will have to rely on itself.

akka47 11mo ago
>The US are by no means innocent of terrorism and invasion of other countries, but at least with countries commonly counted as "the west", the US was a friendly nation. >If we have the likes of terrorist states like Russia taking over, then we got some very dark times ahead of us. Did you seriously write these two sentences one right next to the other and not see the hypocrisy in what you're saying?
- SanjayMehta 11mo ago
  It's pointless trying to educate the wilfully ignorant.
  - giardini 11mo ago
    We gave up on you guys a long time ago: told your Dad to leave you behind a bush but he was a good Dad so, lucky you! Our bad.
    - SanjayMehta 11mo ago
      I have no idea what you're trying to say.
graemep 11mo ago
I agree with your first point. The alternatives are a lot worse. its not going to be Russia (its not got the economy to do it) but China. > The US are by no means innocent of terrorism and invasion of other countries, but at least with countries commonly counted as "the west", the US was a friendly nation. And in most of Asia too where China is a very immediate threat. > Even worse, if the right wing and right extreme talking points and policies in the US don't stop, we might face the (still) strongest military on the planet becoming the arm of a fascist state That seems alarmist to me. Nationalist policies and rhetoric (and I have lived with worse than the US) do not lead to fascism that easily, especially when you have strong institutions.
- tmountain 11mo ago
  I have concerns about the authoritarian tendencies of the current admin, but I think the word "fascism" should be avoided in these types of discussions, as it's such a loaded term that it's hard to know exactly what's implied. The main risks I see are the erosion of democratic norms (weakening of core institutions) and a reduced access to due process, particularly for non-citizens. You see this in ICE deportations to offshore prisons without any clear indication of what happens next. Threats to invade territories for which the U.S. has no basis for occupation (i.e., Greenland and Panama) further raise concerns. As well as use of federal force against protesters, targeting dissent and media pressure (threats to revoke broadcast licenses), surveillance and visa revocations used for political gains, and purges and restructuring of law enforcement. The list could go on, but the threats are real.
  - watwut 11mo ago
    How are they NOT fascists? They match pretty much any definition of that word. It is easy to know what is implied. Issue is emotional - people do not want to admit that yes, these are fascists.
    - tmountain 11mo ago
      Fascism is historically loaded and collapses debate. It's a binary label. Speaking in absolutes makes it harder to have productive conversations.
InMice 11mo ago
Both political far sides are rocking the boat, not just rights even tho they are in power. It's both of them together and the dysfunction of their inability to compromise or reason on anything. Moderates or centrist voters in the USA have no representation and haven't for some time.
- DangitBobby 11mo ago
  No representation, huh? Is that why Obama was in office for two terms and Biden was in for one?
- watwut 11mo ago
  Frankly, bullshit. The center is ruling the democratic party, actively suppressing left and frequently tacitly enabling the far right. Meanwhile, left barely does anything. They are not rocking the boat, they are powerless. Both Obama and Biden were center choice. The whole democratic party is ruled by centrist politicians and ideology which is why they cant oppose the increasingly radical republicans all that effectively.
  - giardini 11mo ago
    >"Meanwhile, left barely does anything. They are not rocking the boat, they are powerless."< The left's judicial branch is very active: they sue every chance they get. And since they've diligently packed the court systems for decades, and since population centers that are predominantly Democratic are usually the locations for filing significant legal issues, i.e., they have left-leaning populations, therefore left-leaning juries and leftist judges, they usually get what they sue for. Maybe someday we'll be able to look at Epstein's mail or Clinton's e-mails even.
    - watwut 11mo ago
      What are you talking about here. It was right wing who packed the courts - to the point the bias is blatant and obvious. They are not even trying to pretend they are impartial. The "every accusation is an admission" thing is truly right with right wingers like you. > Maybe someday we'll be able to look at Epstein's mail or Clinton's e-mails even. Who was blocking the release? Trump. Trump was blocking the release.

akka47 11mo ago

>The US are by no means innocent of terrorism and invasion of other countries, but at least with countries commonly counted as "the west", the US was a friendly nation. >If we have the likes of terrorist states like Russia taking over, then we got some very dark times ahead of us. Did you seriously write these two sentences one right next to the other and not see the hypocrisy in what you're saying?

SanjayMehta 11mo ago
It's pointless trying to educate the wilfully ignorant.
- giardini 11mo ago
  We gave up on you guys a long time ago: told your Dad to leave you behind a bush but he was a good Dad so, lucky you! Our bad.
  - SanjayMehta 11mo ago
    I have no idea what you're trying to say.

graemep 11mo ago

I agree with your first point. The alternatives are a lot worse. its not going to be Russia (its not got the economy to do it) but China. > The US are by no means innocent of terrorism and invasion of other countries, but at least with countries commonly counted as "the west", the US was a friendly nation. And in most of Asia too where China is a very immediate threat. > Even worse, if the right wing and right extreme talking points and policies in the US don't stop, we might face the (still) strongest military on the planet becoming the arm of a fascist state That seems alarmist to me. Nationalist policies and rhetoric (and I have lived with worse than the US) do not lead to fascism that easily, especially when you have strong institutions.

tmountain 11mo ago
I have concerns about the authoritarian tendencies of the current admin, but I think the word "fascism" should be avoided in these types of discussions, as it's such a loaded term that it's hard to know exactly what's implied. The main risks I see are the erosion of democratic norms (weakening of core institutions) and a reduced access to due process, particularly for non-citizens. You see this in ICE deportations to offshore prisons without any clear indication of what happens next. Threats to invade territories for which the U.S. has no basis for occupation (i.e., Greenland and Panama) further raise concerns. As well as use of federal force against protesters, targeting dissent and media pressure (threats to revoke broadcast licenses), surveillance and visa revocations used for political gains, and purges and restructuring of law enforcement. The list could go on, but the threats are real.
- watwut 11mo ago
  How are they NOT fascists? They match pretty much any definition of that word. It is easy to know what is implied. Issue is emotional - people do not want to admit that yes, these are fascists.
  - tmountain 11mo ago
    Fascism is historically loaded and collapses debate. It's a binary label. Speaking in absolutes makes it harder to have productive conversations.

InMice 11mo ago

Both political far sides are rocking the boat, not just rights even tho they are in power. It's both of them together and the dysfunction of their inability to compromise or reason on anything. Moderates or centrist voters in the USA have no representation and haven't for some time.

DangitBobby 11mo ago
No representation, huh? Is that why Obama was in office for two terms and Biden was in for one?
watwut 11mo ago
Frankly, bullshit. The center is ruling the democratic party, actively suppressing left and frequently tacitly enabling the far right. Meanwhile, left barely does anything. They are not rocking the boat, they are powerless. Both Obama and Biden were center choice. The whole democratic party is ruled by centrist politicians and ideology which is why they cant oppose the increasingly radical republicans all that effectively.
- giardini 11mo ago
  >"Meanwhile, left barely does anything. They are not rocking the boat, they are powerless."< The left's judicial branch is very active: they sue every chance they get. And since they've diligently packed the court systems for decades, and since population centers that are predominantly Democratic are usually the locations for filing significant legal issues, i.e., they have left-leaning populations, therefore left-leaning juries and leftist judges, they usually get what they sue for. Maybe someday we'll be able to look at Epstein's mail or Clinton's e-mails even.
  - watwut 11mo ago
    What are you talking about here. It was right wing who packed the courts - to the point the bias is blatant and obvious. They are not even trying to pretend they are impartial. The "every accusation is an admission" thing is truly right with right wingers like you. > Maybe someday we'll be able to look at Epstein's mail or Clinton's e-mails even. Who was blocking the release? Trump. Trump was blocking the release.