5 ms·

This is part of the reason that people do not donate.

by peanutz454 10mo ago

teekert 10mo ago
At least not when some rando stops you on the street.
- zwnow 10mo ago
  I always donate to the random homeless people stopping me on the street. Doesn't really matter to me what they do with it, whatever keeps them warm.
  - ktallett 10mo ago
    As a former homeless person, good on you. I will say, don't feel pressured to, a chat or a nice comment actually means as much, it reminded me I was human.
    - zwnow 10mo ago
      Oh its usually accompanied with a chat, here in Germany often times they just need some money to stay the night somewhere. However some just tell you whatever story to get their next high. Whatever floats their boat, to me its just sad that such a rich country doesn't help them while actively making being homeless harder for them. It's almost christmas and really cold out there, I know there are so many people freezing to death. What good does my money do when I invest it into some imaginary assets or kept it on my bank forever...
      - ktallett 10mo ago
        Ah good on you! You seem like a lovely person. Some absolutely do tell you a story to get a fix, and it is tricky. I visit Berlin often for work, and the sheer number of homeless people I have met and chatted to who seem to have become homeless due to a lack of mental health support is extremely sad. I suspect it will only get worse. I was lucky to be homeless in London respectfully weather wise, I can't imagine being homeless in Berlin as it is so cold. This isn't for you as you do plenty but incase others read this, but if you happen to ever see a thick coat in a charity shop, second hand store, or thrift store (whatever you call it) and it is quite cheap, do buy it as there are many charities that take them to give to homeless people.
      - account42 10mo ago
        Germany does help them, it just requires they either apply for work or prove that they are unfit for work. Not the most pleasant thing to do, sure, but no German is forced to beg on the streets.
        zwnow 10mo ago
        > no German is forced to beg on the streets. This is such an uneducated and entitled comment just showing how little regular people know about this situation in Germany. Its also one of the most commonly used arguments on this topic and its simply not true. Homeless shelters are overcrowded and extremely unhygienic. Our infrastructure isn't made for an ever-growing amount of homeless people. Law, rights and reality sadly grow appart heavily. "Die Tafel" is completely overwhelmed too. This statement might have been true 15 years ago but you should re-educate yourself on the topic.
        jack_tripper 10mo ago
        > Homeless shelters are overcrowded and extremely unhygienic. It's not just the hygiene. it's that in those shelters you're constantly surrounded by a few mentally ill and possibly violent people who will lash out in unpredictable ways and make life worse for everyone with their constant tics and noises making you live in constant anxiety. If you're homeless but not mentally ill yet, then being in such an environment everyday will definitely negatively affect your sanity as your daily struggle becomes surviving the shelter, instead of working to getting back on your feet. Kind of like being locked up in a prison but from which you can leave. So then no wonder a lot of homeless people feel safer and less stressed just living and sleeping in public areas than in shelters.
        trollbridge 10mo ago
        Where I live our homeless shelters are hygienic and not overcrowded (they will not go over capacity, ever, due to health code / liability reasons). They are usually not full either. However they have a strict no drugs, no alcohol, and no fighting policy. That means a lot of people aren’t interested in going to them.
  - Pooge 10mo ago
    I think parent commenter was talking about random people "working"[1] for charities and stopping you on the street. If one wanted to donate, why would they do it through a stranger on the street and not directly to their website? However, if you give a homeless person money and they go buy drugs, I think you effectively made them poorer. I would advise giving them food instead.[2] [1]: Word in quotes because there is no way to verify their identities. [2]: I've literally seen a person asking for money get offered free fries at McDonald's and denying them. Beggars don't get to be choosers.
    - sincerely 10mo ago
      You literally gave an example of a beggar who is being a chooser. It sounds like they very much can be.
      - Pooge 10mo ago
        Guess what they got with their behavior? Nothing. No food and no money.
    - zwnow 10mo ago
      Who am I to judge what they do with their money? I couldnt possibly know if they are allergic to something. Also not every homeless person is an addict. Even beggars can have agency over their resources. An addiction is not for me to solve, first things first should be to cover their basic needs, only then you can work on an addiction. Money is the easiest thing to give.
      - Pooge 10mo ago
        Oh I'm not saying they don't. But I think you can understand why it's ridiculous to give money to someone and see them buy drugs. So if you give them food directly, you're certain where your money goes. You also eliminate the false homeless people (similar to the example I gave).
      - trollbridge 10mo ago
        You should know that for an addict, the “next fix” is the first “need” that gets met. I am not convinced it is ethical to supply money to a pipeline to drug dealers.
  - CrossVR 10mo ago
    Unfortunately in Europe these can also be scams, there are some people who will dress up homeless but are actually just begging for profit. They're easy to recognize, because they're very forceful in their begging, relying more on intimidation than compassion. There really is no level people won't sink to for some money.
    - nrhrjrjrjtntbt 10mo ago
      The trick is donate at the park where they camp out, not on the street.
      - bell-cot 10mo ago
        The first trick is having a bit of local knowledge. If (say) they're outside begging money "for food" at the same time as the local homeless shelter is serving a free dinner...yeah.
    - 1718627440 10mo ago
      Yes most are really scams, often also adults that claim for their poor small children with the same sign for decades (maybe that are eternal young children, that also are stable across different parents, because they also share that across different people sometimes) or whole families, that suddenly surround you. I mean these are also poor people, but the money you donate to them, won't go to them. Once you meet a real poor, it's obvious. You meet them outside of reasonable business hours, they are obviously a native, ashamed to ask for help and actually like to have a conversation.
    - trinix912 10mo ago
      Some of those are also human trafficking victims (at least in Europe). There are gangs that illegally bring them over the border, force them to beg on the streets, and take the money they get. The actual homeless people here have access to government support and shelters, those beggars don't as they're not here legally.
    - mordae 10mo ago
      Sadly, this. There are even networks. I know a person who begs on a specific interval of a subway line, has been for at least a decade, and has been pretty violent towards actual beggars who did not know the rules. Some are genuine. People who went into debt, with health issue that prevented them from ever repaying it, fleeing from families so as not to burden them... Smugglers who were found out, left with an unpayable amount of debt while the politicians that used to protect them went without punishment.
  - UrineSqueegee 10mo ago
    yes contribute to their suicide, smart.
    - zwnow 10mo ago
      True should just ignore them like reasonable people and let them freeze in winter so the authorities can pick up their bodies and dispose of them. Did you ever buy a friend of yours a wine for birthday? Or did you go to McDonalds with your kids? Congrats you contributed to their suicide.
  - SilverElfin 10mo ago
    In some American cities I’ve noticed a lot of seemingly homeless women with kids standing on street corners, that are actually Romanian scammers (“gypsies”). People have caught them drugging their babies to make them compliant with sitting under the hot sun all day. And at the end of the day they climb into a Benz because they aren’t actually in need. It really sucks for the people who are truly in need.
    - 1718627440 10mo ago
      These are really common in Germany as well. It is often the same people in the same places and they have business hours, coffee breaks and shift rotations.
    - KingMob 10mo ago
      > at the end of the day they climb into a Benz I'll take "Things That Never Happened" for $200, Alex.
      - lambdaone 10mo ago
        Sadly such things do happen: https://metro.co.uk/2017/02/20/gang-of-beggars-pictured-getting-out-of-romanian-registered-car-in-cambridge-6459992/ https://metro.co.uk/2017/02/20/gang-of-beggars-pictured-gett... I look forward to you donating that $200 to a homeless charity, KingMob.
        KingMob 10mo ago
        > Romania-registered VW Passat Gonna need a Benz for the full $200. And I always donate directly to the homeless, too many charities have excessive overhead.
      - rationalist 10mo ago
        I can't attest to the other parts, but I can attest to the nice cars part.
      - Loughla 10mo ago
        This is an urban legend in every city I've ever lived in. And he stood up out of the wheelchair and walked to his Mercedes and drove away and that's why I never give to homeless people (or formal charities).
  - DaSHacka 10mo ago
    > whatever keeps them warm. lol more like whatever keeps their heroin dealer warm
  - astura 10mo ago
    That can cause perverse incentives such as children taken out of school so they can beg full time, such as this - https://archive.is/32Btf https://archive.is/32Btf five of them are now dead as a result.
kakacik 10mo ago
Part of comfy self-excuse for sure. And then burn the money on junk food, legal or illegal drugs or worse.
- bragh 10mo ago
  Why should somebody donate to somebody else's luxuries if they could spend it on their own luxuries? Anyway, yes, direct donation is always better, be it to some random guy down on his luck in the street (unless they have just missed their bus and need ticket money for the next one and so for 3 years in the same bus station) or to some trusted person/group who actually does deliver the stuff to the area. Way too many random NGOs have popped up in Europe promising to do good things, just transfer money to their bank account and they will take care of it all for you.
  - account42 10mo ago
    Even "legit" NGOs have a huge overhead.
UrineSqueegee 10mo ago
all the big charities are scams, my partner works for an adjacent industry
- jjcob 10mo ago
  I've worked with an organisation that was on the receiving end of a popular charity, and they definitely got something (new playground equipment for disabled children). Can't say how efficient the charity was, but there are definitely charities that don't keep all the money for themselves.
- mlrtime 10mo ago
  Maybe not scams, but I agree they are bad. I always tell people to donate as local as possible. Ideally local Shelters, Churches (that take in everyone) etc...

This is part of the reason that people do not donate.

teekert 10mo ago

At least not when some rando stops you on the street.

zwnow 10mo ago
I always donate to the random homeless people stopping me on the street. Doesn't really matter to me what they do with it, whatever keeps them warm.
- ktallett 10mo ago
  As a former homeless person, good on you. I will say, don't feel pressured to, a chat or a nice comment actually means as much, it reminded me I was human.
  - zwnow 10mo ago
    Oh its usually accompanied with a chat, here in Germany often times they just need some money to stay the night somewhere. However some just tell you whatever story to get their next high. Whatever floats their boat, to me its just sad that such a rich country doesn't help them while actively making being homeless harder for them. It's almost christmas and really cold out there, I know there are so many people freezing to death. What good does my money do when I invest it into some imaginary assets or kept it on my bank forever...
    - ktallett 10mo ago
      Ah good on you! You seem like a lovely person. Some absolutely do tell you a story to get a fix, and it is tricky. I visit Berlin often for work, and the sheer number of homeless people I have met and chatted to who seem to have become homeless due to a lack of mental health support is extremely sad. I suspect it will only get worse. I was lucky to be homeless in London respectfully weather wise, I can't imagine being homeless in Berlin as it is so cold. This isn't for you as you do plenty but incase others read this, but if you happen to ever see a thick coat in a charity shop, second hand store, or thrift store (whatever you call it) and it is quite cheap, do buy it as there are many charities that take them to give to homeless people.
    - account42 10mo ago
      Germany does help them, it just requires they either apply for work or prove that they are unfit for work. Not the most pleasant thing to do, sure, but no German is forced to beg on the streets.
      - zwnow 10mo ago
        > no German is forced to beg on the streets. This is such an uneducated and entitled comment just showing how little regular people know about this situation in Germany. Its also one of the most commonly used arguments on this topic and its simply not true. Homeless shelters are overcrowded and extremely unhygienic. Our infrastructure isn't made for an ever-growing amount of homeless people. Law, rights and reality sadly grow appart heavily. "Die Tafel" is completely overwhelmed too. This statement might have been true 15 years ago but you should re-educate yourself on the topic.
        jack_tripper 10mo ago
        > Homeless shelters are overcrowded and extremely unhygienic. It's not just the hygiene. it's that in those shelters you're constantly surrounded by a few mentally ill and possibly violent people who will lash out in unpredictable ways and make life worse for everyone with their constant tics and noises making you live in constant anxiety. If you're homeless but not mentally ill yet, then being in such an environment everyday will definitely negatively affect your sanity as your daily struggle becomes surviving the shelter, instead of working to getting back on your feet. Kind of like being locked up in a prison but from which you can leave. So then no wonder a lot of homeless people feel safer and less stressed just living and sleeping in public areas than in shelters.
        trollbridge 10mo ago
        Where I live our homeless shelters are hygienic and not overcrowded (they will not go over capacity, ever, due to health code / liability reasons). They are usually not full either. However they have a strict no drugs, no alcohol, and no fighting policy. That means a lot of people aren’t interested in going to them.
- Pooge 10mo ago
  I think parent commenter was talking about random people "working"[1] for charities and stopping you on the street. If one wanted to donate, why would they do it through a stranger on the street and not directly to their website? However, if you give a homeless person money and they go buy drugs, I think you effectively made them poorer. I would advise giving them food instead.[2] [1]: Word in quotes because there is no way to verify their identities. [2]: I've literally seen a person asking for money get offered free fries at McDonald's and denying them. Beggars don't get to be choosers.
  - sincerely 10mo ago
    You literally gave an example of a beggar who is being a chooser. It sounds like they very much can be.
    - Pooge 10mo ago
      Guess what they got with their behavior? Nothing. No food and no money.
  - zwnow 10mo ago
    Who am I to judge what they do with their money? I couldnt possibly know if they are allergic to something. Also not every homeless person is an addict. Even beggars can have agency over their resources. An addiction is not for me to solve, first things first should be to cover their basic needs, only then you can work on an addiction. Money is the easiest thing to give.
    - Pooge 10mo ago
      Oh I'm not saying they don't. But I think you can understand why it's ridiculous to give money to someone and see them buy drugs. So if you give them food directly, you're certain where your money goes. You also eliminate the false homeless people (similar to the example I gave).
    - trollbridge 10mo ago
      You should know that for an addict, the “next fix” is the first “need” that gets met. I am not convinced it is ethical to supply money to a pipeline to drug dealers.
- CrossVR 10mo ago
  Unfortunately in Europe these can also be scams, there are some people who will dress up homeless but are actually just begging for profit. They're easy to recognize, because they're very forceful in their begging, relying more on intimidation than compassion. There really is no level people won't sink to for some money.
  - nrhrjrjrjtntbt 10mo ago
    The trick is donate at the park where they camp out, not on the street.
    - bell-cot 10mo ago
      The first trick is having a bit of local knowledge. If (say) they're outside begging money "for food" at the same time as the local homeless shelter is serving a free dinner...yeah.
  - 1718627440 10mo ago
    Yes most are really scams, often also adults that claim for their poor small children with the same sign for decades (maybe that are eternal young children, that also are stable across different parents, because they also share that across different people sometimes) or whole families, that suddenly surround you. I mean these are also poor people, but the money you donate to them, won't go to them. Once you meet a real poor, it's obvious. You meet them outside of reasonable business hours, they are obviously a native, ashamed to ask for help and actually like to have a conversation.
  - trinix912 10mo ago
    Some of those are also human trafficking victims (at least in Europe). There are gangs that illegally bring them over the border, force them to beg on the streets, and take the money they get. The actual homeless people here have access to government support and shelters, those beggars don't as they're not here legally.
  - mordae 10mo ago
    Sadly, this. There are even networks. I know a person who begs on a specific interval of a subway line, has been for at least a decade, and has been pretty violent towards actual beggars who did not know the rules. Some are genuine. People who went into debt, with health issue that prevented them from ever repaying it, fleeing from families so as not to burden them... Smugglers who were found out, left with an unpayable amount of debt while the politicians that used to protect them went without punishment.
- UrineSqueegee 10mo ago
  yes contribute to their suicide, smart.
  - zwnow 10mo ago
    True should just ignore them like reasonable people and let them freeze in winter so the authorities can pick up their bodies and dispose of them. Did you ever buy a friend of yours a wine for birthday? Or did you go to McDonalds with your kids? Congrats you contributed to their suicide.
- SilverElfin 10mo ago
  In some American cities I’ve noticed a lot of seemingly homeless women with kids standing on street corners, that are actually Romanian scammers (“gypsies”). People have caught them drugging their babies to make them compliant with sitting under the hot sun all day. And at the end of the day they climb into a Benz because they aren’t actually in need. It really sucks for the people who are truly in need.
  - 1718627440 10mo ago
    These are really common in Germany as well. It is often the same people in the same places and they have business hours, coffee breaks and shift rotations.
  - KingMob 10mo ago
    > at the end of the day they climb into a Benz I'll take "Things That Never Happened" for $200, Alex.
    - lambdaone 10mo ago
      Sadly such things do happen: https://metro.co.uk/2017/02/20/gang-of-beggars-pictured-getting-out-of-romanian-registered-car-in-cambridge-6459992/ https://metro.co.uk/2017/02/20/gang-of-beggars-pictured-gett... I look forward to you donating that $200 to a homeless charity, KingMob.
      - KingMob 10mo ago
        > Romania-registered VW Passat Gonna need a Benz for the full $200. And I always donate directly to the homeless, too many charities have excessive overhead.
    - rationalist 10mo ago
      I can't attest to the other parts, but I can attest to the nice cars part.
    - Loughla 10mo ago
      This is an urban legend in every city I've ever lived in. And he stood up out of the wheelchair and walked to his Mercedes and drove away and that's why I never give to homeless people (or formal charities).
- DaSHacka 10mo ago
  > whatever keeps them warm. lol more like whatever keeps their heroin dealer warm
- astura 10mo ago
  That can cause perverse incentives such as children taken out of school so they can beg full time, such as this - https://archive.is/32Btf https://archive.is/32Btf five of them are now dead as a result.

kakacik 10mo ago

Part of comfy self-excuse for sure. And then burn the money on junk food, legal or illegal drugs or worse.

bragh 10mo ago
Why should somebody donate to somebody else's luxuries if they could spend it on their own luxuries? Anyway, yes, direct donation is always better, be it to some random guy down on his luck in the street (unless they have just missed their bus and need ticket money for the next one and so for 3 years in the same bus station) or to some trusted person/group who actually does deliver the stuff to the area. Way too many random NGOs have popped up in Europe promising to do good things, just transfer money to their bank account and they will take care of it all for you.
- account42 10mo ago
  Even "legit" NGOs have a huge overhead.

UrineSqueegee 10mo ago

all the big charities are scams, my partner works for an adjacent industry

jjcob 10mo ago
I've worked with an organisation that was on the receiving end of a popular charity, and they definitely got something (new playground equipment for disabled children). Can't say how efficient the charity was, but there are definitely charities that don't keep all the money for themselves.
mlrtime 10mo ago
Maybe not scams, but I agree they are bad. I always tell people to donate as local as possible. Ideally local Shelters, Churches (that take in everyone) etc...