3 ms·

I'd be interested in hearing more - do you have a source for this? Seems to me CAs have intermediate certificates and can rotate those, not much upside to rota

by michaelt 11mo ago

I'd be interested in hearing more - do you have a source for this? Seems to me CAs have intermediate certificates and can rotate those, not much upside to rotating the root certificates, and lots of downsides.

nickf 11mo ago
Chrome root policy, and likely other root policies are moving toward 5-years rotation of the roots, and annual rotation of issuing CAs. Cross-signing works fine for root rotation in most cases, unless you use IIS, then it becomes a fun problem.
- mikestorrent 11mo ago
  What an absolute pain in the ass for a mediocre increase in security.
aaomidi 11mo ago
The upside to rotating roots is: 1. These might need to happen as emergencies if something bad happens 2. If roots rotate often then we build the muscle of making sure trust bundles can be updated I think the weird amount they are being rotated today is the real root cause if broken devices and we need to stop the bleed at some point.
- selcuka 11mo ago
  > If roots rotate often then we build the muscle of making sure trust bundles can be updated Five years is not enough incentive to push this change. A TV manufacturer can simply shrug and claim that the device is not under warranty anymore. We'll only end up with more bricked devices.
  - aaomidi 11mo ago
    5 years also is a step not a destination
    - account42 11mo ago
      Sounds more like a detour across hot coals that doesn't get us anywhere closer to the destination.
- michaelt 11mo ago
  > 1. These might need to happen as emergencies if something bad happens Isn't this the whole point of intermediate certificates, though? You know, all the CA's online systems only having an intermediate certificate (and even then, keeping it in a HSM) and the CA's root only being used for 20 seconds or so every year to update the intermediate certificates? And the rest of the time being locked up safer than Fort Knox?
  - aaomidi 11mo ago
    The thing is even the most secure facilities need ingress and egress points. Those are weaknesses. It’s also that a root rotation might be needed for completely stupid vulnerabilities. Like years later finding that specific key was generated incorrectly.

nickf 11mo ago

Chrome root policy, and likely other root policies are moving toward 5-years rotation of the roots, and annual rotation of issuing CAs. Cross-signing works fine for root rotation in most cases, unless you use IIS, then it becomes a fun problem.

mikestorrent 11mo ago
What an absolute pain in the ass for a mediocre increase in security.

aaomidi 11mo ago

The upside to rotating roots is: 1. These might need to happen as emergencies if something bad happens 2. If roots rotate often then we build the muscle of making sure trust bundles can be updated I think the weird amount they are being rotated today is the real root cause if broken devices and we need to stop the bleed at some point.

selcuka 11mo ago
> If roots rotate often then we build the muscle of making sure trust bundles can be updated Five years is not enough incentive to push this change. A TV manufacturer can simply shrug and claim that the device is not under warranty anymore. We'll only end up with more bricked devices.
- aaomidi 11mo ago
  5 years also is a step not a destination
  - account42 11mo ago
    Sounds more like a detour across hot coals that doesn't get us anywhere closer to the destination.
michaelt 11mo ago
> 1. These might need to happen as emergencies if something bad happens Isn't this the whole point of intermediate certificates, though? You know, all the CA's online systems only having an intermediate certificate (and even then, keeping it in a HSM) and the CA's root only being used for 20 seconds or so every year to update the intermediate certificates? And the rest of the time being locked up safer than Fort Knox?
- aaomidi 11mo ago
  The thing is even the most secure facilities need ingress and egress points. Those are weaknesses. It’s also that a root rotation might be needed for completely stupid vulnerabilities. Like years later finding that specific key was generated incorrectly.