3 ms·

Sorry, isn't this running an open-source OS? The header has a link to a github with a non-commercial license[0]. If so, couldn't you just use the OS on non-pre

by catapart 10mo ago

Sorry, isn't this running an open-source OS? The header has a link to a github with a non-commercial license[0]. If so, couldn't you just use the OS on non-premium-priced mini-PC hardware and never have to worry about them locking you out of your box? I guess maybe it's concerning if you're being forced to update by the OS? I've never actually run a system like that, but was considering umbrel OS (didn't actually know about the hardware until this post), so if I'm being naive about something, it's in earnest. [0] https://github.com/getumbrel/umbrel https://github.com/getumbrel/umbrel

pedrozieg 10mo ago
I’m not worried about “can I, personally, keep this thing running?” so much as “what is the long-term story for the kind of person who buys a turnkey appliance”. Yes, Umbrel OS is on GitHub and you can already run it on generic NUCs / Pi etc. That’s great. But the value prop of the hardware is the whole bundle: curated apps, painless updates, maybe remote access, maybe backups. If Umbrel-the-company pivots or withers, the repo still being there under a non-commercial license doesn’t guarantee ongoing maintenance, an app store, or support. And the NC clause is exactly what makes it hard for someone else to step in and sell a fully supported forked “Umbrel but maintained” box to non-technical users. So for people like you and me, sure, we can just install it elsewhere; for the target audience of an expensive plug-and-play box, the long-term social contract is still the fragile part.
- catapart 10mo ago
  Ah, okay, yeah, I get you now. I could get behind a splashy section about how users can "walk away at any time" with a roadmap that seems reasonable. I think that fits in with the general ethos of what these things should offer to consumers. I can certainly see why a company wouldn't be keen to advertise "if we die, here's what you can do.", but a way to tell consumers how to gracefully exit doesn't seem so antithetical to a marketing plan, and personally, knowing they've given me an off-ramp does make me more likely to use a thing.
kragen 10mo ago
A non-commercial license prevents it from being open-source, and I think already constitutes extremely clear communication about what will happen to users when Umbrel goes bankrupt: they will be stranded, because the license doesn't allow another company to step up and take over maintenance the way an open-source license would.
- pas 10mo ago
  these companies - if they are so afraid of an OSI approved license - should put certain conditions into their that trigger when they go out of business and the IP gets released
  - lukechilds 10mo ago
    This is a good suggestion, we're taking a look into it.
reachableceo 10mo ago
I run umbrel in a VM . For non fiat finops stuff. I also run Cloudron on a VPS. I wish both of those solutions had more mindshare. They save me so much time and effort. Especially Cloudron!
- cess11 10mo ago
  I looked at Cloudron and I'm not sure why I would choose this over just throwing in Proxmox on a box and start clicking stuff in their 'app store'.
  - SansGuidon 10mo ago
    Proxmox = infra. You run ops. Cloudron = platform. Ops is mostly done. Clicking apps is easy. Maintaining them isn’t.
    - cess11 10mo ago
      Right, but with helper-scripts "ops is mostly done" on Proxmox too. You just point at them and perhaps follow some instructions and that's it.
      - SansGuidon 10mo ago
        Helper scripts automate day 0. Cloudron automates day 2+. Install ≠ operate

pedrozieg 10mo ago

I’m not worried about “can I, personally, keep this thing running?” so much as “what is the long-term story for the kind of person who buys a turnkey appliance”. Yes, Umbrel OS is on GitHub and you can already run it on generic NUCs / Pi etc. That’s great. But the value prop of the hardware is the whole bundle: curated apps, painless updates, maybe remote access, maybe backups. If Umbrel-the-company pivots or withers, the repo still being there under a non-commercial license doesn’t guarantee ongoing maintenance, an app store, or support. And the NC clause is exactly what makes it hard for someone else to step in and sell a fully supported forked “Umbrel but maintained” box to non-technical users. So for people like you and me, sure, we can just install it elsewhere; for the target audience of an expensive plug-and-play box, the long-term social contract is still the fragile part.

catapart 10mo ago
Ah, okay, yeah, I get you now. I could get behind a splashy section about how users can "walk away at any time" with a roadmap that seems reasonable. I think that fits in with the general ethos of what these things should offer to consumers. I can certainly see why a company wouldn't be keen to advertise "if we die, here's what you can do.", but a way to tell consumers how to gracefully exit doesn't seem so antithetical to a marketing plan, and personally, knowing they've given me an off-ramp does make me more likely to use a thing.

kragen 10mo ago

A non-commercial license prevents it from being open-source, and I think already constitutes extremely clear communication about what will happen to users when Umbrel goes bankrupt: they will be stranded, because the license doesn't allow another company to step up and take over maintenance the way an open-source license would.

pas 10mo ago
these companies - if they are so afraid of an OSI approved license - should put certain conditions into their that trigger when they go out of business and the IP gets released
- lukechilds 10mo ago
  This is a good suggestion, we're taking a look into it.

reachableceo 10mo ago

I run umbrel in a VM . For non fiat finops stuff. I also run Cloudron on a VPS. I wish both of those solutions had more mindshare. They save me so much time and effort. Especially Cloudron!

cess11 10mo ago
I looked at Cloudron and I'm not sure why I would choose this over just throwing in Proxmox on a box and start clicking stuff in their 'app store'.
- SansGuidon 10mo ago
  Proxmox = infra. You run ops. Cloudron = platform. Ops is mostly done. Clicking apps is easy. Maintaining them isn’t.
  - cess11 10mo ago
    Right, but with helper-scripts "ops is mostly done" on Proxmox too. You just point at them and perhaps follow some instructions and that's it.
    - SansGuidon 10mo ago
      Helper scripts automate day 0. Cloudron automates day 2+. Install ≠ operate