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> This is a thing you can only say if you know very little about the talent pipeline for actual espionage technology in the USG Or something one might want to
by embedding-shape 11mo ago
> This is a thing you can only say if you know very little about the talent pipeline for actual espionage technology in the USG
Or something one might want to say if they want to still have plausible deniability about not having been there, yet still want to say something. Who knows.
- tptacek 11mo agoThe USG does not want plausible deniability about this. They actively recruit on elite engineering campuses over it. It is super fucking interesting work and candidates compete for the opportunity to do it. If you think otherwise, you're in a filter bubble.
- embedding-shape 11mo agoI'm not talking about the USG... Yes yes, it's great work and no drawbacks, particularly not considering the moral and ethical implications. But please do continue try to help them recruit while purposefully misunderstand what I write.
- tptacek 11mo agoThey do not need my help recruiting and the fact that you think an HN thread has any impact whatsoever on elite CS talent matriculating into CNE programs is further evidence you may be in a filter bubble. Not understanding this can't possibly help your cause.
- ecshafer 11mo agoThere is this consistent myth by the most radical faction of people in the country. They are only the most radical 5 or 10%, but they seem to believe their anti-nationalist, anti-government, anti-American views are much more widely share than they are. The vast majority of American's view working in the defense industry, espionage, etc as a good thing.
- tptacek 11mo agoThere are ways in which it clearly is a good thing. I don't have my head around how people could oppose CNE operations aimed at counterproliferation, for example. But obviously, it's morally fraught work (fraught, meaning complicated, a minefield, not meaning "damnable") and I don't have the stomach (or, really, the talent) for it.
- ecshafer 11mo agoTheres a spectrum too it. Helping design fighter jets and missiles? Yes that has to be done with the idea that the weapons you are designing for national security can and most likely will be used in such a way that will cause harm. However in espionage or cyber security, those are almost all pure good. You are protecting information or attaining information. The main myth though is that somehow there is this idea that someone working as a booze allen contractor for the NSA or CIA is going to now be blackballed by everyone out of disgust. Most people will see it as good, and most companies just want talent and dont actually care about what areas people are in.
- tptacek 11mo agoWorking in actual CNE as an employee at NSA has for a very long time been an effective calling card in software security roles as well.
- embedding-shape 11mo agoWhere can one find these people online? As they are seemingly not on HN, and as a European with similar views, it would be fun to get closer to them.
- mbesto 11mo ago> If you think otherwise, you're in a filter bubble. Belittling. Excellent way to get your point across. > They actively recruit on elite engineering campuses over it. It is super fucking interesting work and candidates compete for the opportunity to do it. This seems like it should be an easy thing to verify with some sort of reference. This is exactly what the parent comment is suggesting and you still flippantly are avoiding it as "trust me bro". I actually believe you, so why don't you share some evidence then?
- tptacek 11mo agoI don't really care in this instance, because the information I'm relaying here is obviously, verifiably correct. It's not like, a persuasion challenge for me here. I'm just relating basic facts.
- mbesto 11mo agoFlippant again. Nice.
- tptacek 11mo agoIf you have something to say, I think you should say it. This is vacuous. I understand why it's unpopular to relate the fact that applications for serious surveillance/espionage CNE work at NSA are competitive, and that the USG is very open about soliciting those applications. It remains a fact. Feel free to challenge me on that; we can go deeper. What I'm not going to do is write you an apology for confronting you with that information.
- mbesto 11mo ago> I understand why it's unpopular to relate the fact that applications for serious surveillance/espionage CNE work at NSA are competitive, and that the USG is very open about soliciting those applications. And I'm not challenging you on that, at all. I actually believe you are correct because you typically provide very thoughtful answers from a position of authority and usually bring evidence to back your assertions. In this case, you're not. Your comments are childish and makes your position way less believable and hence why I'm pushing you. > It remains a fact. Just because you say it's a fact doesn't mean it is. The fact that you've done nothing but say "I know its a fact so therefore it is" doesn't help your position either. > What I'm not going to do is write you an apology for confronting you with that information. Yeesh. Chill out. I never asked for an apology. Your discourse is belittling and unproductive.
- metadope 11mo ago>> If you think otherwise, you're ... [elided] Yellow card.