4 ms·

If we apply your logic, would you say it's fair to go around and say "all teachers are bastards", when referring to teacher unions that make it hard to fire inc

by gruez 11mo ago

If we apply your logic, would you say it's fair to go around and say "all teachers are bastards", when referring to teacher unions that make it hard to fire incompetent teachers? Or maybe "all doctors are bastards" when referencing how the american medical association (the trade association for doctors) makes it hard for more doctors to be admitted?

adrianN 11mo ago
Misanthropy is the logical conclusion /s
shadowgovt 11mo ago
Sure, but one key difference is that if either of those groups steps outside the law, you can recourse to the law to check them. Since police are part of the law, when they don't hold their own accountable, there's no recourse. And that's a real problem. This is before one even starts unpacking the knapsack of how much law is designed to protect the police from consequences of performing their duties (leading to the unfortunate example "They can blow the side off your house if they have reason to believe it will help them catch a suspect and the recompense is that your insurance might cover that damage.")
- gruez 11mo ago
  >Since police are part of the law, when they don't hold their own accountable, there's no recourse. And that's a real problem. I don't see how this is a relevant factor for the two cases I mentioned. Sure, it's bad that are part of the justice system, and therefore you can't use the justice system to correct their misbehavior, but you're not going to involve the justice system for incompetent teachers, or not enough doctors being admitted. For all intents and purposes the dynamic is the same.
  - shadowgovt 11mo ago
    > incompetent teachers I'm not really talking about incompetence, and incomptenece isn't the largest issue in the category of "things that make people say ACAB." https://www.wtrf.com/top-stories/teacher-charged-with-sex-crimes-against-2-minors-in-pennsylvania/ https://www.wtrf.com/top-stories/teacher-charged-with-sex-cr... I am not at all joking when I make the claim that police committing sex crimes is a problem that is frequently swept under the rug by both police internal affairs and the judicial system. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/mar/08/daniel-holtzclaw-lawsuit-sexual-assault-complaint-police-cover-up https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/mar/08/daniel-holtz...
  - thatcat 11mo ago
    Teachers and doctors may abuse their authority, but there is a sharp legal limit to what they can get away with.
    - ethbr1 11mo ago
      There are sharp legal limits to what cops can get away with: they've just historically been unenforced by government prosecutors and/or juries.
      - AngryData 11mo ago
        Those limits don't seem very sharp if they are rarely enforces.
  - mrwrong 11mo ago
    you are definitely going to start involving the justice system if teachers and doctors start physically abusing people, illegally detaining them and killing them!
    - roywiggins 11mo ago
      that is unfortunately less true that you might think for some students: https://www.propublica.org/article/garrison-school-illinois-autistic-student-dragged-ankle https://www.propublica.org/article/garrison-school-illinois-... https://www.propublica.org/article/shrub-oak-school-autism-new-york-education-oversight https://www.propublica.org/article/shrub-oak-school-autism-n... https://autisticadvocacy.org/actioncenter/issues/school/climate/jrc/ https://autisticadvocacy.org/actioncenter/issues/school/clim... https://www.the74million.org/article/trump-officials-autism-schools-secluded-and-restrained-students-at-high-rates https://www.the74million.org/article/trump-officials-autism-... "Selected Cases of Death and Abuse at Public and Private Schools and Treatment Centers" https://www.gao.gov/assets/gao-09-719t.pdf https://www.gao.gov/assets/gao-09-719t.pdf > Death ruled a homicide but grand jury did not indict teacher. Teacher currently teaches in Virginia https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/area-special-ed-teacher-suspended-after-texas-death-revealed/1875627/ https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/area-special-ed-tea...
alexashka 11mo ago
Yes. It's not the root however. The root is nepotism. What you're describing is one of ten thousand problems nepotism causes.
vel0city 11mo ago
How many teachers are getting off on murder charges due to their position as a teacher? Seems like a pretty big difference.
- febusravenga 11mo ago
  They only murder talents and/or curiosity in children or self esteem. (I'm totally not ATAB here, just agree that parent post analogy)
  - collingreen 11mo ago
    Using murder in this context to minimize -actually murder- is pretty bad taste.
  - IAmBroom 11mo ago
    Words matter. Your rebuttal doesn't.

by gruez 11mo ago

adrianN 11mo ago

Misanthropy is the logical conclusion /s

shadowgovt 11mo ago

Sure, but one key difference is that if either of those groups steps outside the law, you can recourse to the law to check them. Since police are part of the law, when they don't hold their own accountable, there's no recourse. And that's a real problem. This is before one even starts unpacking the knapsack of how much law is designed to protect the police from consequences of performing their duties (leading to the unfortunate example "They can blow the side off your house if they have reason to believe it will help them catch a suspect and the recompense is that your insurance might cover that damage.")

gruez 11mo ago
>Since police are part of the law, when they don't hold their own accountable, there's no recourse. And that's a real problem. I don't see how this is a relevant factor for the two cases I mentioned. Sure, it's bad that are part of the justice system, and therefore you can't use the justice system to correct their misbehavior, but you're not going to involve the justice system for incompetent teachers, or not enough doctors being admitted. For all intents and purposes the dynamic is the same.
- shadowgovt 11mo ago
  > incompetent teachers I'm not really talking about incompetence, and incomptenece isn't the largest issue in the category of "things that make people say ACAB." https://www.wtrf.com/top-stories/teacher-charged-with-sex-crimes-against-2-minors-in-pennsylvania/ https://www.wtrf.com/top-stories/teacher-charged-with-sex-cr... I am not at all joking when I make the claim that police committing sex crimes is a problem that is frequently swept under the rug by both police internal affairs and the judicial system. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/mar/08/daniel-holtzclaw-lawsuit-sexual-assault-complaint-police-cover-up https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/mar/08/daniel-holtz...
- thatcat 11mo ago
  Teachers and doctors may abuse their authority, but there is a sharp legal limit to what they can get away with.
  - ethbr1 11mo ago
    There are sharp legal limits to what cops can get away with: they've just historically been unenforced by government prosecutors and/or juries.
    - AngryData 11mo ago
      Those limits don't seem very sharp if they are rarely enforces.
- mrwrong 11mo ago
  you are definitely going to start involving the justice system if teachers and doctors start physically abusing people, illegally detaining them and killing them!
  - roywiggins 11mo ago
    that is unfortunately less true that you might think for some students: https://www.propublica.org/article/garrison-school-illinois-autistic-student-dragged-ankle https://www.propublica.org/article/garrison-school-illinois-... https://www.propublica.org/article/shrub-oak-school-autism-new-york-education-oversight https://www.propublica.org/article/shrub-oak-school-autism-n... https://autisticadvocacy.org/actioncenter/issues/school/climate/jrc/ https://autisticadvocacy.org/actioncenter/issues/school/clim... https://www.the74million.org/article/trump-officials-autism-schools-secluded-and-restrained-students-at-high-rates https://www.the74million.org/article/trump-officials-autism-... "Selected Cases of Death and Abuse at Public and Private Schools and Treatment Centers" https://www.gao.gov/assets/gao-09-719t.pdf https://www.gao.gov/assets/gao-09-719t.pdf > Death ruled a homicide but grand jury did not indict teacher. Teacher currently teaches in Virginia https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/area-special-ed-teacher-suspended-after-texas-death-revealed/1875627/ https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/area-special-ed-tea...

alexashka 11mo ago

Yes. It's not the root however. The root is nepotism. What you're describing is one of ten thousand problems nepotism causes.

vel0city 11mo ago

How many teachers are getting off on murder charges due to their position as a teacher? Seems like a pretty big difference.

febusravenga 11mo ago
They only murder talents and/or curiosity in children or self esteem. (I'm totally not ATAB here, just agree that parent post analogy)
- collingreen 11mo ago
  Using murder in this context to minimize -actually murder- is pretty bad taste.
- IAmBroom 11mo ago
  Words matter. Your rebuttal doesn't.