4 ms·

It's interesting to see that MIT is still like this. Canonically, there were no classes that taught programming per se: if you needed that, there were (often vo

by ternus 10mo ago

It's interesting to see that MIT is still like this. Canonically, there were no classes that taught programming per se: if you needed that, there were (often volunteer-taught) courses over IAP, the January Independent Activities Period, that would attempt to fill the gap - but you were still expected to pick it up on your own. I taught the Caffeinated Crash Course in C way back when. Good times.

ghaff 10mo ago
Way back in the day, you did have a few programming classes especially outside of CS/EE given that it was perfectly reasonable for students to have no or little prior exposure to computers and programming. See FORTRAN coloring book. And, as you say, although I haven't dropped by since pre-COVID, there was as you say a smattering of stuff during IAP. But my general sense based on some level of connections is you're expected to figure out a lot of, for lack of a better term, practicalities on your own. I don't think there's a lot of hand-holding in many cases--probably more so in some domains than others.
- kkylin 10mo ago
  Yup. Back in my day there was 1.00, a Civil Engineering course, a pretty standard intro to programming in plain old C. I don't know if it still exists. There was nothing of that sort in EECS, though there are lots of IAP courses (which take place in January, before spring semester starts). IMO a month is about right to spend on (leisurely) picking up a programming language for fun. A friend and I learned APL that way.
  - icambron 10mo ago
    In 2004 or so, 1.00 was an intro to Java course. I took it very cynically to pad out my units; I was a course 6 senior at the time. I got side-eyed by TAs a lot.
    - kkylin 9mo ago
      Yes, 1.00 was popular with Course 6ers who wanted easy units.
  - fsckboy 9mo ago
    when I took 1.00 it was FORTRAN IV on IBM 370... with actual punchcards, batch.
- foobarian 10mo ago
  I feel like anyone with enough talent to get into MIT will have no problem picking up a programming language in a month or two on their own. Heck there are freshmen there who write programming languages for fun
  - ghaff 9mo ago
    I think that assumes a base level of programming knowledge in the generic which may be a reasonable assumption in this day and age if you're applying to MIT/Stanford/etc. It wasn't going back a decade or two but may be today. Perhaps if you've never written a program, you're just not a candidate for some undergraduate programs today whatever your other talents.
griffzhowl 10mo ago
Wasn't the SICP course a course in programming per se?
dnackoul 10mo ago
During my time there (late 2000s) there was a Software Lab (6.170) that focused on programming fundamentals and culminated in a four-person, month-or-so long project. At least at the time, it was one of the more notorious courses in terms of time investment. It was common for people to live like monks during project time. Unfortunately I heard that class was retired and there was no direct replacement, which is a shame. It was an excellent crash course in shipping.
- ghaff 10mo ago
  Project courses were pretty notorious. I had a few. 2.70 (which I think is a different number now) in mechanical engineering was a HUGE time sink. [For others: was a design challenge competition with a live context.] Did another all-terrain vehicle competition in grad school which was probably an even bigger time sink.
- fsckboy 9mo ago
  when i took 6.170 it was CLU. it was 15 units because of lab, but yeah, time sink.
neilv 10mo ago
There was this one grad class taught by a professor who was also a capable programmer, and the class incidentally used this one programming language that many grad students wanted to learn. So the word on the street was that his was a good class to take if you wanted a chance to learn the programming language. (Because you have only so much time in the day to allocate to labs.) And rumor was also not to say to the professor that you want to learn that language, because word had gotten back to him about the off-label draw of his class to many, and he didn't like it.
- fsckboy 9mo ago
  you are allowed to say the language name now, tho right? or is he still prowling about?
fsckboy 10mo ago
i've often marvelled that hardly anybody on the MIT CS faculty has ever considered RDBMS / SQL / Codd-Date / relational model worthy of pedagogical consideration. you might cover some crud when surveying semaphores and mutexes, but actually learn SQL? nope.
- ternus 9mo ago
  Are you sure? I took 6.814 Database Systems back when Stonebraker taught it, and it's still being taught as 6.5830. The first problem set was a nontrivial crash course in SQL, using SQLite. Current/modern version: http://db.lcs.mit.edu/6.5830/assignments/pset1/pset1.pdf http://db.lcs.mit.edu/6.5830/assignments/pset1/pset1.pdf Example problem: > Find every Orange Line station in Fall 2018 that, during time period 01 and the direction of 0, had a total ons passenger count greater than average for all Orange Line stations during that same time period, same season, and in the same direction. Report the station name and the total ons value. Sort the results by total ons in descending order and then station name in ascending order. Display the output like ‘Malden Center|21400’.

by ternus 10mo ago

ghaff 10mo ago

Way back in the day, you did have a few programming classes especially outside of CS/EE given that it was perfectly reasonable for students to have no or little prior exposure to computers and programming. See FORTRAN coloring book. And, as you say, although I haven't dropped by since pre-COVID, there was as you say a smattering of stuff during IAP. But my general sense based on some level of connections is you're expected to figure out a lot of, for lack of a better term, practicalities on your own. I don't think there's a lot of hand-holding in many cases--probably more so in some domains than others.

kkylin 10mo ago
Yup. Back in my day there was 1.00, a Civil Engineering course, a pretty standard intro to programming in plain old C. I don't know if it still exists. There was nothing of that sort in EECS, though there are lots of IAP courses (which take place in January, before spring semester starts). IMO a month is about right to spend on (leisurely) picking up a programming language for fun. A friend and I learned APL that way.
- icambron 10mo ago
  In 2004 or so, 1.00 was an intro to Java course. I took it very cynically to pad out my units; I was a course 6 senior at the time. I got side-eyed by TAs a lot.
  - kkylin 9mo ago
    Yes, 1.00 was popular with Course 6ers who wanted easy units.
- fsckboy 9mo ago
  when I took 1.00 it was FORTRAN IV on IBM 370... with actual punchcards, batch.
foobarian 10mo ago
I feel like anyone with enough talent to get into MIT will have no problem picking up a programming language in a month or two on their own. Heck there are freshmen there who write programming languages for fun
- ghaff 9mo ago
  I think that assumes a base level of programming knowledge in the generic which may be a reasonable assumption in this day and age if you're applying to MIT/Stanford/etc. It wasn't going back a decade or two but may be today. Perhaps if you've never written a program, you're just not a candidate for some undergraduate programs today whatever your other talents.

griffzhowl 10mo ago

Wasn't the SICP course a course in programming per se?

dnackoul 10mo ago

During my time there (late 2000s) there was a Software Lab (6.170) that focused on programming fundamentals and culminated in a four-person, month-or-so long project. At least at the time, it was one of the more notorious courses in terms of time investment. It was common for people to live like monks during project time. Unfortunately I heard that class was retired and there was no direct replacement, which is a shame. It was an excellent crash course in shipping.

ghaff 10mo ago
Project courses were pretty notorious. I had a few. 2.70 (which I think is a different number now) in mechanical engineering was a HUGE time sink. [For others: was a design challenge competition with a live context.] Did another all-terrain vehicle competition in grad school which was probably an even bigger time sink.
fsckboy 9mo ago
when i took 6.170 it was CLU. it was 15 units because of lab, but yeah, time sink.

neilv 10mo ago

There was this one grad class taught by a professor who was also a capable programmer, and the class incidentally used this one programming language that many grad students wanted to learn. So the word on the street was that his was a good class to take if you wanted a chance to learn the programming language. (Because you have only so much time in the day to allocate to labs.) And rumor was also not to say to the professor that you want to learn that language, because word had gotten back to him about the off-label draw of his class to many, and he didn't like it.

fsckboy 9mo ago
you are allowed to say the language name now, tho right? or is he still prowling about?

fsckboy 10mo ago

i've often marvelled that hardly anybody on the MIT CS faculty has ever considered RDBMS / SQL / Codd-Date / relational model worthy of pedagogical consideration. you might cover some crud when surveying semaphores and mutexes, but actually learn SQL? nope.

ternus 9mo ago
Are you sure? I took 6.814 Database Systems back when Stonebraker taught it, and it's still being taught as 6.5830. The first problem set was a nontrivial crash course in SQL, using SQLite. Current/modern version: http://db.lcs.mit.edu/6.5830/assignments/pset1/pset1.pdf http://db.lcs.mit.edu/6.5830/assignments/pset1/pset1.pdf Example problem: > Find every Orange Line station in Fall 2018 that, during time period 01 and the direction of 0, had a total ons passenger count greater than average for all Orange Line stations during that same time period, same season, and in the same direction. Report the station name and the total ons value. Sort the results by total ons in descending order and then station name in ascending order. Display the output like ‘Malden Center|21400’.