3 ms·

> EU was supposed to be an economic union, but it morphed into a politicaly cancerous union. That's not true. To quote its founding document: > lay the founda

by saubeidl 11mo ago

> EU was supposed to be an economic union, but it morphed into a politicaly cancerous union. That's not true. To quote its founding document: > lay the foundations of an ever closer union among the peoples of Europe https://www.cvce.eu/content/publication/1999/1/1/cca6ba28-0bf3-4ce6-8a76-6b0b3252696e/publishable_en.pdf#page=2 https://www.cvce.eu/content/publication/1999/1/1/cca6ba28-0b...

mytailorisrich 11mo ago
This is not what the people asked for, wanted, or were told, though. The issue is the insiduous nature of the "ever closer union" that advances by stealth, deception, manufacturing consent over time, and sometimes by just ignoring what the people have said. And then, now and then the people suddenly realise, too late, that on an ever growing range of issues their country has become powerless because a change of policy is either no longer within the country's power and is banned under EU law and treaties... and the web is being woven tighter and tigher little by little. There is no support in member states for leaving the EU or dismantling the EU. "Eurosceptimism" is by and large only wanting to loosen and restrict EU oversight of member states(which again has been the main debate for decades) but even that is anathema and "far right", which should really raise red flags in people's minds even without going full conspirationist.
- saubeidl 11mo ago
  > "the people" You are not the people and you do not speak for them. You are one person, just as I am. I want this, and I was told this - clearly, it's in the founding charta! Right wing populists always pull this parlor trick of framing their views as the views of the people. The people have many different views, you do not speak for us.
  - mytailorisrich 11mo ago
    [flagged]
    - saubeidl 11mo ago
      The French aren't "the people" of the EU either. There was no EU wide vote, so you cannot claim "the people" want or do not want things. It hasn't just been communicated in the founding charta, but communicated and confirmed over and over and over again. [0]. If you have a problem with what member states do, then I actually agree - that's why we need to get rid of that layer! I never claimed your opinion didn't exist, I just called you out for trying to frame your opinion as the one of "the people". [0] https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-7230/ https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-...
      - mytailorisrich 11mo ago
        When you find yourself in a hole...

mytailorisrich 11mo ago

This is not what the people asked for, wanted, or were told, though. The issue is the insiduous nature of the "ever closer union" that advances by stealth, deception, manufacturing consent over time, and sometimes by just ignoring what the people have said. And then, now and then the people suddenly realise, too late, that on an ever growing range of issues their country has become powerless because a change of policy is either no longer within the country's power and is banned under EU law and treaties... and the web is being woven tighter and tigher little by little. There is no support in member states for leaving the EU or dismantling the EU. "Eurosceptimism" is by and large only wanting to loosen and restrict EU oversight of member states(which again has been the main debate for decades) but even that is anathema and "far right", which should really raise red flags in people's minds even without going full conspirationist.

saubeidl 11mo ago
> "the people" You are not the people and you do not speak for them. You are one person, just as I am. I want this, and I was told this - clearly, it's in the founding charta! Right wing populists always pull this parlor trick of framing their views as the views of the people. The people have many different views, you do not speak for us.
- mytailorisrich 11mo ago
  [flagged]
  - saubeidl 11mo ago
    The French aren't "the people" of the EU either. There was no EU wide vote, so you cannot claim "the people" want or do not want things. It hasn't just been communicated in the founding charta, but communicated and confirmed over and over and over again. [0]. If you have a problem with what member states do, then I actually agree - that's why we need to get rid of that layer! I never claimed your opinion didn't exist, I just called you out for trying to frame your opinion as the one of "the people". [0] https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-7230/ https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-...
    - mytailorisrich 11mo ago
      When you find yourself in a hole...